“The First Amendment was not written for Muslims....."

The confusion and debate is hard to muster because it is so simple. The 1st amendment applies to U.S. citizens, period. Nobody else.

 

Muslims aren't a race Jiminy.

 

The Barbary Pirates? The colonies & then the US were protected @ sea by the UK & then France, until the US achieved independence. That was in 1783, which ended the protection that France had been affording our shipping @ sea. That's when the Barbary Pirates began preying upon US shipping.

Pres. Jefferson was interested in all manner of questions, & he bought a Qur'an 11 years (in 1765) before the US Declaration of Independence.

 

You're not disproving a single thing I am posting. The point is that Muslims were attacking US ships long before the US ever got involved in the Middle East or meddled in Muslim affairs. This is in direct opposition to the Islamoapologist talking points offered up by the left. Jefferson bought his Qur'an because of the big "WTF?" he uttered out when he learned about just what Islam was, from the attackers themselves.

 

That is factually incorrect

 

We make laws against religions now

 

No, this is actually not true at all, he definitely bought one in 1765, 2 decades before the First Barbary War. He thought it was anti-science and anti-reason but saw fit to defend it anyway because of freedom of religion. Not that the Bible itself is immune from having anti-science and anti-reason components of its own.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...efended-muslim-rights/?utm_term=.cccd02dc87c9

And for what it was worth, there were some Muslims already in the country at the time of its founding, mainly because they were slaves but they weren't a big factor or well known.

 

Yes it is correct. True some non-citizens get favorable rulings based on 1st amendment principles but that doesn't mean the 1st amendment was written for them. What country has ever drawn up some rights charter that purposely applied to some other country?

 

Non citizens are free from cruel and unusual punishment, are free from unreasonable search and seizure, entitled to a trial by jury and on and on and on

 

Islamorealism is all I have time for on the subject.

 

It doesn't include Muslims.

Muslims are ruled by Sharia law, not the Constitution.

 

Just to add - universal freedom from religion was also meant to be a universal right.

 

This is correct. In fact technically I think Muslims are banned from living here because their identity and beliefs are in direct conflict with the Constitution.

But apparently other "experts" know better.

 

Of course it includes Muslims. One of the main features of the first amendment is the prohibition of Gov't making laws based on religious belief.

This is further clarified in the Declaration of Independence - the document setting out the principles under which the Constitution is to be interpreted.

 

1A was written for free men not religious people. The concept of freedom is incompatible with both Christianity and Islam.

 

"according to media matters"

I stop reading anytime someone cites a media matters blog.

 

Yup, Jefferson was more concerned with supporting the civic rights of Muslims (& Catholics & Jews & dissenting Christians). None of these groups were historically well thought of in the UK - the Jews were expelled, the Catholics were suppressed, non-Church of England Christians had a tough time practicing in the UK.

& Jefferson wasn't fond of organized religion as it existed in his time @ all. That's why he put together the Jefferson Bible - to try to strip away all the doctrine & accretions, & leave only the words of Jesus.

 

It's not that the first amendment isn't for Muslims, it is that the first amendment is incompatible with Islam.

 

Sharia law is antithetical to our Constitutional freedoms. Anyone who believes otherwise either doesn't understand sharia or doesn't understand the Constitution.

Of course we can. No man made law is absolute, not even the Constitution. The real question is what do we want it to say?

Yes. Islam is more than a religion. It provides societal structure to its believers. It provides a legal framework, Sharia, for its believers to live under. It is different from what most people think of when they use the word "religion".

But Constitutional rights are extended to ex-pats here with Visas, yes? I don't think the rights protected by the Constitution only apply to citizens.

This is the real issue. One can only have one ultimate man-made law. A Muslim person should have to decide whether they live under Sharia or under the Constitution. They cannot live under both, as the two systems are incompatible on several different levels. The problem boils down to distinguishing between Sharia Muslims and Constitutional Muslims, and determining what to do about Sharia Muslims when they run up against the Constitution.

 

Mostly that is true, and what I said. In some cases they are not eligible for a trial by jury for instance.

 

I though ex-pats are still citizens.

 

No, sorry for the confusion. Ex-pats coming the other way, here in the United States but citizens of other countries. They're still afforded the basic protections of the Constitution.

 

Muslims don't want the Constitution, they want Sharia.

Sharia is part and parcel of Islam. It's not just a religion, it's an entire way of life.

http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.or...gal-rulings/52-understanding-islamic-law.html

You don't think I keep saying "Islam is incompatible with western civilization" for no reason, do you?

 

Almost all of the constitution applies to non citizens

 

They don't have a choice. It is part of the 3 major tenants of Islam:

http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.or...gal-rulings/52-understanding-islamic-law.html

Islam as a Complete Package – Three Aspects

Islam is a complete way of life, sent by Allah in the form of revelation by means of Prophet Muhammad (s). As such it covers the three essential needs of human life: physical, intellectual and spiritual. These three aspects of the faith are known individually as:


1 Islam – Divine law


2 Imān - Belief


3 Iħsān - Ethics and moral character.


The first aspect, Islam, deals primarily with the physical aspects of the faith, such as its obligations, prohibitions and recommended actions. This is the part of the faith governed by Shariah – Islamic law. This aspect cannot however be implemented by itself, but must complement the other two. When the Prophet (s) taught Islam to his followers, he taught them all these three aspects at once, in a natural and holistic approach.