Muslims and our way of life?

Muslim is a race?

 

Nah, it isn't a blood thing like for Jews, no. It is a proselytizing religion. You can become a muslim at will.

Would you prefer "segregationist", or maybe "xenophobic"? The later has a PC added value.

 

And you look at Cuba, Mexico, and at one time East Germany. Not everyone wanted out but the percent who do/did risk life and limb to get out and many want to come to the U.S., the greatest country in the history of the world. I say if you want to be a Muslim then live in a Muslim country where they cut each other's heads off. I don't want such a vile religious person near me.

 

You sure you're not confusing them with yourself there? Anyway, what do you have to say to the ones who are from here originally?

 

Why not just say anti-Muslim?

 

Being anti-muslim alone buys one the "segregationist" or "xenophobic" label. One doesn't need more objects of hatred, althought there often are.

 

I would tell them they are ignorant, as are all Muslims.

 

Problem is this is their birth country, too and they'd probably tell you to f8ck off.

 

Read their Islamic texts and all will be revealed, my friend.

 

It sounds like the biggest loser in all this Islamic terrorism is actually.....god. He can't educate his most loyal minions to stop killing in HIS NAME.....what a POS he must be.

 

You are correct - Trump won't win this war with bombs - more bombs create more terrorists.

 

But is it wrong necessarily to dislike a belief system that condones and even encourages mistreatment of women, gays, and nonbelievers? And by 'mistreatment,' I think I am being generous.

 

Ok, here you go, the causes of radicalization, only a small snippet of their instructions from their beloved god and prophet to wage Jihad against us:


Quran
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"(Translation is from the Noble Quran) The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to claim that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah's rule (ie. Muslim conquest). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is disingenuous - the actual Arabic words for persecution (idtihad) - and oppression are not used instead of fitna. Fitna can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. A strict translation is 'sedition,' meaning rebellion against authority (the authority being Allah). This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned "until religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief. [Editor's note: these notes have been modified slightly after a critic misinterpreted our language. Verse 193 plainly says that 'fighting' is sanctioned even if the fitna 'ceases'. This is about religious order, not real persecution.]

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home).Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward " This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is this Arabic word (mujahiduna) used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad, which would not make sense if it meant an internal struggle).

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle. The targets of violence are "those who disbelieve" - further defined in the next verse (13) as "defy and disobey Allah." Nothing is said about self-defense. In fact, the verses in sura 8 were narrated shortly after a battle provoked by Muhammad, who had been trying to attack a lightly-armed caravan to steal goods belonging to other people.

Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion is all for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:193). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, as it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy." As Ibn Kathir puts it in his tafsir on this passage, "Allah commands Muslims to prepare for war against disbelievers, as much as possible, according to affordability and availability."

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence at the time of Muhammad was to convert to Islam: prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars. The popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.

[Note: The verse says to fight unbelievers "wherever you find them". Even if the context is a time of battle (which it was not) the reading appears to sanction attacks against those "unbelievers" who are not on the battlefield. In 2016, the Islamic State referred to this verse in urging the faithful to commit terror attacks: Allah did not only command the 'fighting' of disbelievers, as if to say He only wants us to conduct frontline operations against them. Rather, He has also ordered that they be slain wherever they may be – on or off the battlefield. (source)]

Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people." Humiliating and hurting non-believers not only has the blessing of Allah, but it is ordered as a means of carrying out his punishment and even "heals" the hearts of Muslims.

Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. Verse 9:33 tells Muslims that Allah has charted them to make Islam "superior over all religions." This chapter was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

​

 

Yes, 'mistreatment' doesn't do it justice: the Islamic texts say to KILL gays! But in all fairness Jesus and pals are no more ethical than Allah/Mohammad because the Bible says the same thing and Jesus of course never disagreed with the wording in the Bible, he's had 2000 years of "watching over us" in which to do so, so of course Jesus is as immoral as Allah/Mo are.

 

No, it started 1400 years ago when Mohammad spread his religion by the sword and started the Islamic texts which tell Muslims that his behavior is perfect and for all time because he's the "perfect man". BTW, Islamic scholar Robert Spencer showed that all these claims about Mohammad are indeed true, based on the Islamic texts themselves: https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/06/indiana-muslims-enraged-by-billboard-telling-truth-about-muhammad

 

Yes, love Muslims, question Islam.

 

Yah. In some ways, Islam is part of the Western World - @ least, Muhammed claimed that Islam was the third institutional incarnation of the divine in the World, after Judaism & Christianity. & in other ways not - mostly cultural patterns of marriage, sexual mores, the relations between males & females, dress & so on.

On Jewish terrorism - well, you could look @ the UK Palestine Mandate - the UK tired of being everybody's target, & they washed their hands of the problem once it proved intractable. There's a lot of history there - good, bad, indifferent. & of course WWII was fresh in everyone's mind, & surviving Jews from Europe were being recruited & actively steered to Palestine. Those were terrifying days.

 

No, I don't think it is wrong - everybody is for virtue.

I think it's merely hypocritic, or ignorant.

 

Shows how your thinking prevails..
Islamists were attacking the west and taking slaves long long before the Americas were ever discovered..

 

Then how come Indonesia isn't torn apart and chaotic? False Islam believers, maybe? Or is it because the occident didn't mess with it yet?

 

I would get along just fine too getting handed untold amounts of money and not having to pay taxes etc..

 

If Islam was THAT barbaric then it would not have survived 1400 years and we wouldn't even be having this conversation....so it's only barbaric enough to be a real problem, but still not barbaric enough to actually survive to this very day. On the "barbaric scale" it's only a, say, 80 out of 100 - not 100 out of 100 (in which case it would have self-destructed centuries ago.)

You obviously don't understand how barbaric Sharia is. Please tell us the top 3 most barbaric things about Sharia, off the top of your head, MVictorP. Thanks.


The country that you mention, sometimes considered the most "moderate" Muslim nations, is anything BUT "moderate"!:

Islam, Human Rights and Public Opinion (Durie refers to 2006 poll): 58% of Indonesians believe adulterers should be stoned to death.
https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2016/08/slaughter-silence-open-secret/

World Public Opinion: 49% (plurality) of Indonesians want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country.
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 72% of Indonesians want Sharia to be law of the land
http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/seventy-two-percent-of-indonesians-favor-shariah-law-pew-forum/

Pew Research (2016): A majority of Muslims in 10 countries favor basing laws on the Quran (inc. Pakistan, Pal. Auth, Malaysia, Jordan, Senegal, Nigeria, Indonesia, Lebanon and Turkey). Educated Muslims also favored Sharia, including 55% in 'secular Turkey'.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/04/27/the-divide-over-islam-and-national-laws-in-the-muslim-world/
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/04/majority_of_educated_muslims_abroad_still_favor
_imposition_of_sharia_law.html

Syarif Hidayatullah State University Study (2017): 80% of Islamic education teachers favor enforcement of Sharia (in Indonesia); 89% say non-Sunni religious minorities "should not be accomodated" in Indonesia.
http://www.voanews.com/a/majority-o...-in-indonesia-support-sharia-law/3652387.html

 

You mean, sharia would be even worse than our present judicial system?

That's horrible!

 

You obviously don't understand how barbaric Sharia is. Please tell us the top 3 most barbaric things about Sharia, off the top of your head, MVictorP. Thanks.

 

Mmmmhh... The fact that it isn't money-based is certainly one of these, huh? Anything that isn't money-based is forcibly barbarian, isn't it?