Was Hillary's loss result of campaigning in error?

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Le Chef, Jun 26, 2017.

  1. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    To you in the frozen north and mid Atlantic, was Hillary's loss in anyway attributable to campaigning mistakes?

    I ask because the shrewd Bill Clinton was nervous about her failing to visit Wisconsin after she got the nomination.

    But would that really have helped? My sense is that the better people get to know her, the less they like.

    I'm in Texas, but there are actually a good number of Democrats here. She got nearly 4 million votes, 43% of the total.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2017
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  2. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lord knows and I wish everyone did
    Hillary's Loss Was Hillary.
    Not the Russians, the them or those.
    It was Hillary's fault!


    The corruptions of the DNC were just too gross to ignore or trust the person responsible.
    Her failure to defend "American territory" in Benghazi makes one wonder if she was fit to defend all of America.
    Funding from Wall St. Not Main St.
    Possibly if she gave the VP to Sanders as JFK did to LBJ - she might have . . .
    But, the corruptions to stifle Sanders were just too gross to ignore.

    Hillary was at the helm of her loss.
    Where does the buck stop?

    Moi :oldman:

    r > g

    no_canada.jpg
    Hillary would have allowed :flagcanada: gov't subsidized dairy products to
    put Wisconsin dairy people out of work.
    http://politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/is-it-true-part-deux.495478/page-5#post-1067402566
    Trump threw down the gauntlet at :flagcanada: Hurrah! ​
     
  3. Hotdogr

    Hotdogr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    America was already in an anti-establishment mood. Everyone on the ballot, other than Hillary, were anti-establishment to one degree or another. Bernie, Johnson, Green party whats-her-name. All anti-establishment. Trump was, by far, the most anti-establishment of them all. The democrats had anointed Hillary, sabotaged Bernie, and both sides made damn sure no "other than D or R" candidate had any chance.

    The democrats greased the skids for Trump, in the form of support from the media during the primaries, because they knew he was the only one she had any hope in hell of beating. The democrats ran an establishment stooge in a change election. When evidence of corruption and collusion and scumbaggery by Hillary and the democrats was uncovered, it was the final nail. No one is to blame except the corrupt democrats and Hillary herself.

    Strategically, Hillary might have had a good chance of winning after 8 years of a republican potus, but she had no chance in hell following 8 years of Obama.
     
  4. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    It was somewhat, yes, but the idea that one can campaign for the Electoral College is actually something of a myth largely promulgated by those who win by the Electoral College alone. The fact of the matter which is long known is that you really can't do it. If you campaign for the EC you will lose popular votes and if you campaign for the Popular you will lose the EC, so the idea is to campaign in a balanced way and try to win by a large margin since the overall and state's margins are statistically almost impossible to diverge from each other by that much and therefore if your winning margin is sufficient, enough will come from the EC states that the popular and EC will even out. Hillary was a little unbalanced in favor of the popular, that's true, but it wouldn't have mattered if she had won by more than 3 million, and that would have been what happened if she hadn't been running against Russia as well as the other side.

    And the Russians wouldn't have mattered if Sanders hadn't run. That doddering old fool was one of the main reasons so many Dems stayed home and thus has given us Trump. Thanks, Bernie and Berniebots, you ******* idiots who stayed home because Hillary wasn't perfect see what idealism gets you now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
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  5. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    Thank you for that. The trouble with Hillary is that she was not a change candidate.

    P.s. - I voted for Johnson.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
  6. Stuart Wolfe

    Stuart Wolfe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It was in almost every way imaginable attributable to her campaigning mistakes. The very first one being that she believed her own press, that her win was inevitable. That Trump had no chance of winning. She lived in her own bubble where she failed to take him as a serious threat. This was something she had done before with some young chap named Barrack. It seems she never learned from that loss.

    Look, she had Bill Clinton telling her campaign it was on the wrong path, and he has some idea how to run winning campaigns - and she ignored him. She could have run in the Rust Belt, they could have tried talking to people in economic need - but she chose not to. It was a case of pride going before a fall. And that pride is still there; she hasn't learned from her mistakes, as evidenced by her blaming her loss on everything from misogyny to Netflix - anything and anyone except Hillary Rodham Clinton.

    My son, who does computer programming for marketing companies, had an interesting take on how the election turned out the way it did. He said that while Hilla ran a campaign geared towards the press and Hollywood, Trump ran a marketing campaign, and that made all the difference.
     
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  7. ChrisL

    ChrisL Well-Known Member

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    Hillary is HISTORY. The only thing she is good for now is funny memes. :D
     
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  8. Matthewthf

    Matthewthf Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The last county she had a rally in before the election was over voted heavily for Trump. What does that tell you?
     
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  9. Stuart Wolfe

    Stuart Wolfe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I only wish she would become history. I said this elsewhere, it'd be a lot easier to stop talking about her if she would only go away and stop talking herself.

    Then again, considering we've had posters on this forum harping for YEARS about The Romney Landslide, perhaps it would do the left a bit of good to see how it feels as well!
     
  10. ChrisL

    ChrisL Well-Known Member

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    I know. Why can't she be quiet for a while like George Bush? People can say a lot of things about Pres Bush, but he is a class act, if you ask me.
     
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  11. ChrisL

    ChrisL Well-Known Member

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    She is always blabbering about something. :rolleyes:
     
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  12. bwk

    bwk Well-Known Member

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    Cross Check, and the closing of 868 polls in mostly minority areas is the reason Clinton lost;
     
  13. Hotdogr

    Hotdogr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Really, that's the only thing she's ever been good for.
     
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  14. Liberty4Ransom

    Liberty4Ransom Banned

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    Bernie bros have principals, and apparently you don't.
     
  15. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    Hilary lost because she is the most dishonest, corrupt, lying, deceitful, scoundrel ever to run for President. Trump is a saint compared to her.
     
  16. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Re.: Blabbering.

    She has a history of falling & concussions. Not just the one we know about
    that was so severe it resulted in Hard Neurological signs, double vision.
    Even mild concussions with no neurological signs have consequences.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-concussion_syndrome
    Hillary has had repeated falling episodes. Why? Cardiac?
    Meanwhile, emotional and memory problems are associated with Post Concussion Syndrome.
    Her health was an issue to this M.D. ret.
    And not addressed in the campaign. Was Hillary healthy enough for the presidency?
    We can blame Sanders for not bringing this up compared to his own health.
    I'm 69 and have no "old person illnesses". No diabetes, heart, etc. It happens

    Moi :oldman:

    r > g



    TaxCanada.jpg
    Make :flagcanada: Pay Its' Fair Share!
     
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  17. gc17

    gc17 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Speaking of which, a couple of my favs.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    What neither of us have is a President who is not ruining our country beyond repair. Your principals may well end up as fatal liability in the fascist third world hellhole dictatorship that Trump is turning the USA into.

    Which of your vaunted principles did Hillary violate? Which of the Republican lies and calumnies about her did you believe? did you think she betrayed Benghazi? or was she sending her emails to foreign spies, did she really kill Vince Foster or plan to institute Sharia law at orgies with Obama, what?

    Politico said she lied ONE PERCENT more than Sanders himself did. Was that worth putting Adolf Hitler's clone into the Presidency?

    These aren't rhetorical questions, I'd really like to hear your answers. I really want to know how you guys think so as to counter you, or we may still have Trump as President until 2024, (and maybe beyond, I fear)
     
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  19. fizbo

    fizbo Well-Known Member

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    Hillary lost because she lost the heart and soul of middle America. She had nothing of substance to offer, and while Democrats got away with that failing in the past, working class voters got fed up.

    A slogan of "I'm with her" and a promise of Obama part#2 was a big NO to voters looking for substance. No amount of additional campaigning was going to change that.
     
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  20. Stuart Wolfe

    Stuart Wolfe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, there's no real effective way for you to counter anyone when you think of Trump as a clone of Hitler. Your own hysterical hyperbole - and I'm sorry, but there's no other way to describe your comments since I fear you really DO think that Trump will somehow become an emperor - makes it difficult for you to have any kind of rational defense or reasoned discourse of your own.
     
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  21. fizbo

    fizbo Well-Known Member

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    This response should be a cut and paste template for responses to a large number of posts around here. Nice job.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
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  22. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    She vowed repeatedly to shoot down Russian military and civilian aircraft over Syrian - where Russia is invited to fly and the USA is not. The Commander of the United States Joint Chiefs of Staff was asked in a Congressional hearing what shooting down Russian jets over Syria would mean. His response was precise: "War with Russia." He further said the the United States military is not willing to do it. I do believe any head of the USA military ever before has declared the military would defy a Presidential order.

    War with Russia is genocidal nuclear holocaust. If for no other reason, brain damaged and sociopathic hot head Hilary Clinton was never going to be allowed to be president by the intelligence and military community. They ABSOLUTELY want to continue the absurd 70+ year old Cold War against the U.S.S.R., which has been extinct since the 1980s. And the Democratic Party is running more of an anti-Russia campaign to preserve the Cold War than during the McCarthy Red Scare era. However, they also do NOT want a HOT war with Russia - because then everyone of them die. Obviously, where they are in DC and the Pentagon are target #1 in a real war with Russia.

    Candidly, I believe the election was computer hacked and specifically by the American intelligence/military insiders because they saw Hilary Clinton as far too dangerous, too uncontrollable and with too great a temper. Instead, they wanted Trump who obviously does NOT want a war with Russia - now instead to use all the Russian collusion crap to box in Trump about Russia to protect the continuation of the Cold War against the U.S.S.R. - ie to maintain the status quo forever for the massive economic profits of the military industrial complex - and the tens of thousands of intelligence community and military jobs it preserves and creates.

    This also is why, in my opinion, Comey did the BIZARRE attack speech against Hilary Clinton just before the election - knowing this would severely damage her - but also not prosecuting, which might have fired up her supporters. The insiders were NOT going to let Clinton win for her talk of war with Russia and her overall violent tempered loose-cannon-on-the-deck dangers.

    The reason ex FBI Director Mueller was selected was to make it 100% certain the investigation would NEVER investigate the FBI, CIA, NSA or military complex - who I believe is the real reason that at the last minute Trump hedged out Clinton with a few extra hundred votes here and there in 3 key states - leading to a technical electoral college win.

    Yes, it is a conspiracy theory, but the election went exactly as I figured it would. Despite polls, with Clinton's known violent temper combined with repeatedly claiming she was going to order the American Air Force to shoot down Russian aircraft, the powers that really run this country ("intelligence and military communities") were NEVER going to allow her to become president. Never. Not sane person wants war with Russia - and she might actually have refused to do what they would privately be telling her to do otherwise if she were president. Trump has made it clear now that he will not buck the military or necons.

    In this, Trump protects their jobs and power, while making them lots and lots of war money - without really doing much or concluding any of the necessity to endlessly spent more on the military industrial complex. This made Trump perfect for them, other than to use what THEY did, blame it on the Russians, and force Trump to continue their Cold War with Russia, rather than the detente with Russia that Trump promised in the election.

    However, I suspect your rabid hatred of Trump, which could just be spoiled bad loser based, would not even allow you to consider that American intelligence community and military insiders are anything but squeaky clean perfect and truthful - when in fact they are in the propaganda and lying profession, though some likely truly believe it best for the country. Avoiding Clinton's war with Russia is obviously was best for everyone.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
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  23. Liberty4Ransom

    Liberty4Ransom Banned

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    Translation: blah blah blah boot licking blah blah blah hyperbole blah blah.
     
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  24. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That member often posts such levels of hysterical hyperbole, even starts many threads on it.
     
  25. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A real problem Clinton faced beyond scandals was a more core problem - she is not a likable person. She can't tell a good joke to save her life, she can't not laugh - only cackle, she can not come across as sincere - rather only spouting out canned lines written for her, and her bad temper clearly shines thru over and over. Bernie Sanders strongest point was the opposite - he is likable.

    The media didn't cover her much because it was painful to listen to her for long, even for her supporters.

    Throughout the election on the forum, there were virtually NO pro-Hilary threads of Democrats boasting about her. They wouldn't even try. I even started threads to invite Democrats to post praises of Hilary and essentially no forum Democrats would try.

    People hated Trump. People loved Trump. People hated Hilary Clinton. No one loved her. Rather, to supporters she just was a Democrat and wasn't Trump. It is hard to have a big win with a particularly unlikable candidate.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017

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