“I Need More Mexicans”

Discussion in 'Immigration' started by kazenatsu, Jul 12, 2017.

  1. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    This thread is specifically about agriculture. Basically you generate the same boilerplate in every single immigration related thread, regardless of what is being specifically being addressed in the thread topic. I responded to that and you wanted to go on and on with your standard boilerplate. We've discussed that multiple times in multiple threads with the same result. You keep changing the subject. The subject: agricultural workers. My answer? H-2A. Your answer? "But what about something totally different blah blah blah..."
     
  2. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    It works both ways, LilMike.

    Let's get beyond the so - called "boilerplate" language as you call it.

    Let us suppose that you have a monopoly on the truth. You are 100 percent right. You are God and you are totally infallible. Let us go with that as a presupposition since it seems to be where these threads eventually lead. Your side has all the answers... you even tell me what I think (albeit you spend enough time misrepresenting my views to have a BS. in cow manure.) Sooo...

    1) Many people coming in from Mexico drown in the Rio Grande trying to get into the United States. Many times people are forced to become drug mules. Some are forced into prostitution; some are beaten; others are robbed... and sometimes murdered to boot. With that kind of a cost, you mean to tell me all you have to do is apply for an agricultural visa - and voila - you have a "legal" method of entry???

    2) Presuming it's that easy to get into the United States, can you explain why the Mexican government has distributed comic books illustrating how to avoid immigration authorities?

    3) When families can be broken up and people lose what they've earned in the United States, where is the upside for any human being not to get those presumably easy to obtain human registration papers?

    4) Are you saying that the bulk of the Mexicans are inherently evil? Are you saying their DNA is a lot different than yours?
     
    yabberefugee likes this.
  3. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure that any of that applies to either this topic, or any topic for that matter. When you post garbage like "Are you saying that the bulk of the Mexicans are inherently evil?" All you're doing is trolling. You don't want to have a discussion, you just want to SKREEE.
     
  4. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    An honest question, based upon your assertions, is far from trolling. What you've done to me has been far worse than ANYTHING you've had to endure.

    You can dodge, deflect, and anything you want, but my questions have EVERYTHING to do with your presupposition. Hey, don't think I don't appreciate your efforts. I'm going to employ your strategies on people that annoy me. I have five hundred bucks that says they are going to say about me what I've said about you. Maybe it's time to have an honest discourse. A little back and forth.

    Think you can come up with an answer? I'm putting forth the effort for you to make your case - without any kind of name calling or false allegations (questions are not allegations and not trolling if they fit what you seem to be saying - OR so say all my critics... and the mods agree with them.)
     
  5. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I've already made my case in this thread (and others) and you changed the subject. It's pretty clear at this point you're not going to suddenly become an honest poster looking for diverse viewpoints.
     
  6. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    The problem you have, is that Americans have become accustomed to one of the lowest costs (if not THE lowest cost) of living in the western world. I don't know how or why this happened, but it was a fatal mistake.

    Where I live, a punnet of fresh berries is $5 .. at least. Sometimes $12. An unrenovated 90 year old house with 3 beds and one bath, 30 mins from city centre, almost always sells for over $1mil, even on a busy road or under power lines. Milk is $3 for 2 litres. But our agricultural workforce is almost all citizens, and about 99% white. They're paid well, and are often provided with free room and board. This makes such work attractive to those who want to save some money, and who don't mind getting their hands dirty. Our immigrants (even those who've become citizens) don't want anything to do with that kind of work.

    I guarantee, if your producers upped their pay rates (and it CAN be done, we did it here and farmers are still farming), more locals would be prepared to do the work. Yes, prices would have to go up, but that's the cost of living in a peaceful and reasonable society. Have a look at the cost of living in those highly regarded Nordic countries. WAY higher than in America. Besides, when everyone is paying $5 for berries, it becomes the new norm very quickly.
     
  7. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    You don't even know me - nor anything I'm talking about. Whatever you are trying to prove, you shouldn't rattle my cage. For IF people were willing to pay more for some products, they would. The fact is, they don't. Then they wail about Mexicans after they go to places that sell cheaper products that were made possible by the very Mexicans they wail about. These people expect the government to save them from themselves.
     
  8. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Actually, they will. In my country, many empty nesters do the picking. They're retired or semi-retired, and kids have left home, so they can go where they please. Quite a lot of them buy flashy Winnebagos and follow the various crops around the country and the seasons. The more labour intensive ag work (stock work etc) is almost always done by young single males, so the freedom is still there.
     
  9. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    You have a Hell of lot of room to talk. You have NEVER been honest with me. And now that we presume your position is the ONLY one, you still cannot make a case for it.
     
  10. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    You missed the point. We wail about $5 berries too, but since all berries are $5 (with occasional discounts during bumper seasons), it's rather meaningless. The obvious answer is that those who can't afford $5 berries, don't eat berries. They eat whatever is in season and cheap.

    No one is 'willing' to pay $5 for berries, in other words. We simply chose whether or not to eat 'em.
     
  11. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    In this country, such small operations have turned to 'boutique' farming. Specialising in a single or several high end lines. Organics, gourmet, etc. It's the best use of small holdings in a market which has room for high priced groceries alongside the cheapest.
     
  12. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    I would eat muscadines (they are like grapes, but a bit more sour), but they are outrageously high. I really don't know where we go with this argument. People won't pay that in the stores, but they will pay a lower cost. So, the crops rot in the field because people would not take the jobs.
     
  13. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    They will. We did it here. They do it in much of Scandinavia.
     
  14. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    People WILL pay it ... if they want to eat muscatelles (expensive black grapes), and if there are no cheaper options available.
     
  15. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    People WILL pay it ... if they want to eat muscatelles (expensive black grapes), and if there are no cheaper options available.
     
  16. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    That's about what they get here. Sometimes more, for speciality produce (requiring skilled picking techniques). It's very attractive work for college students and retirees.
     
  17. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    I don't know what a muscatelle is, but I promise you that I and many people like me forego the pleasure due to the price. There are plenty to be had if the farmers could get them to the store. I don't know why you're arguing. You've stated your opinion; I've stated mine. How many more posts are we going to go back and forth on before you realize that I won't pay because I can't afford them?
     
  18. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    We do all that here (good pay rate and unions), and our ag sector is very healthy .. including the small holdings. You're missing the key element .. that being that the consumer will adapt to an increase in standard pricing. Obviously. No one wants to starve, after all.
     
  19. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Yes they will. Once it pays well, it will be seen as a very good 'lifestyle' job, so popular that waiting lists will exist. That's how it works here. There is stiff competition for places.
     
  20. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    So you buy in season green grapes instead, right? There you go. Choice.

    If there is no choice, though, you will pay whatever it costs.
     
  21. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    So, the poor are having to buy stuff grown in Mexico when it can be grown here.
     
  22. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    Grown in Mexico. Yes sir. We have choices.

    BTW, can you answer the questions I posed to LilMike?
     
  23. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Our imported produce is sometimes more expensive than locally produced stuff, so I don't really understand this. Meantime, we have a range of prices for most fruit/vegetable lines, and some of these differ wildly (from factory farmed to high end organic), but mostly they're not so far apart that two different economies exist. Poor folk go to their local Aldi and buy the cheapest in season produce only, eschewing out of season hot house products. Rich folk buy the organic and boutique grown stuff at their local small greengrocer. All producers are therefore served.
     
  24. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    I'm not reading questions you pose to other people.
     
  25. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    So, how did you come to start responding to me?

    I'm not getting your argument, so we're talking oranges and apples. I don't buy products that don't exist at Aldi. So I go to Walmart. If it's too much there, I have to do without, thereby stating the obvious once again.

    The anti-immigrant lobby likes to pick on this aspect because it is so easy to demagogue. Watch them tap out whenever we talk about their solutions. Now, sir, I've told you about a situation I see and am a part of. If you don't believe me, that is your prerogative. That does not mean it is not honest and accurate. You DID read my posts to other posters as this is not my thread.

    I can't blame you for not wanting to go back and reread the tough questions and responding. The answers are rhetorical. But, I am the only poster on this board that has offered a solution to the immigration debacle... presuming one actually exists.
     

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