Macron says Africa’s main problem is ‘7-8 children per woman,’

So the reason you hold onto the concept of god is to protect yourself from the concept of god? That's an interesting concept.

 

They didn't teach you that in your Madrassa? I'm surprised you're here voicing your ignorance here rather than out molesting women somewhere. You can get some fresh air at the same time.

 

My reasons are unimportant. But in the absence of a belief in God the civilization disappears. Europeans are reproducing way below replacement.

Why do you suppose that is? Why are Europeans so disinterested in life they don't have children?

What is the inevitable outcome of such a situation?

 

Oh so you referred "immaturity" like being "childish"... Ooookaaay, I understand now... Sorry juvenile is not too common around where I am from... It's called Medrese by the way. Madrasa reminds of Madrabaz... They wear hats too... Lol...

 

I will counter that with, that with the absence of a belief in god, the civilization becomes more important.

 

Yes. But unfortunately, their is no obvious answers. We can't hope to get back at the power we was, at that time, the rest of the world were way behind us in term of technologies and developement.
Furthermore, our culture knew it's golden hour between the 15th and 19th century. It was the time of classical music, classical painting, the time of Corette, Couperin, David, Géricault, Ingre... But the radical change in technologies changed the world, and the time of those people ended.
On another continent, another country appeared, the USA. Bigger than the old europe, as populated with a population globally speaking one languahe : english. The time of classical painting, music ended, and the american culture rised : it's the time of super heroes, star wars.

The last problem is not a small one, among the centuries, France welcomed a lot of different strangers : polish, spanish, italian, sometimes even german. Waves after waves, migrant integrated in France, in a country devastated by it's own madness, during a long time France was much more populated than the rest of Europe. Today, with 60 millions inhabitant, it's still one of the most populated country, but the time when France had the double population of the United Kingdom is far away. But the last wave didn't worked, here the muslims. Today, we're at the 4th generation of muslims born in France, the problem Islam represent in France can't be easily solved.

And finally, we're among one of the most athee country in the world. I'm athee myself, but If humanity doesn't need mandatory religion, they need spirituality, discipline.
Catholism was imperfect, it caused drama like the deportation of protestants out of France. A man named Denis Papin moved out France and go to England, he was one of the forerunner of the steam engine.

Probably the last problem, and it's ironic, our democratic model don't work that good. As far as I see, their is a lot of problem in a lot of different democracies.
The recent problem just highlighted what is true for a long time : France is sick and that for a long time.

The quick defeat in 1940 showed that clearly, when France generals were old, silly men, Germany chose a bunch of much younger, but mainly more skilled general, with the results we knew.

De Gaulle was what we call our "baroud d'honneur", a "last stand".

For the moment, the french people didn't found the way to rejuvenate their country, I think that in 200 next years, France would have to reborn or die.

Macron is clearly not the solution, and I don't think a single man is a solution. He even said that "French culture doesn't exist". It show the scorn that man have for his own country.

 

Doesn't seem to be working in Europe. A Swedish politician recently denied that there was any such thing as "Swedish culture." And a previous poster says Macron said the same about French culture. Indeed, the whole misbegotten fad of "multiculturalism" seems to be a rejection of one's own culture. I link it to the rise of atheism.

Can you provide any examples of a vigorous atheistic society, one in which you would like to live?

 

I didn't knew. In France, our president pretended they were no french culture. Our medias, newspapers, TV channel were trying to pretend he was extremly savant.

He even spoke of the "island of guyane", refering to the french guyane. It's by the way a french territory, in south america, totally connected to the land. This ignorant don't know the frontiers of his own country.

 

I don't buy your premise that a nation, or culture, needs to have a foundation of believers to thrive.

 

Hard do say. Some roman philosophers were rather close to atheism, but it was rather at the end of the empire. It's rather funny to see that some christian thinkers were dangerously close of atheism too, I don't remind the name of the man, but one claimed that "you didn't need the proof of the existence of god because the idea of god was enough".

Among the fun facts, the first known athee (from christianism in Europe) was a priest, Jean Meslier.

 

It's not. It's a denial of belief. You can't fill this void, its occupied with denial.

 

It is not a premise, so much as a conclusion from studying history.

If you can provide counter-examples to my conclusion, I'd be obliged.

 

Yes, indeed. Part of the reason Rome declined was an apathy towards Paganism which had ceased to inspire. That apathy was replaced in due course by Christianity.

I'll have to look him up.

 

How do you explain China's rise to prominence?

 

Excellent! Thank you.

They are certainly atheistic.

I explain their rise to prominence as due to the extreme docility of its population harnessed by a well educated and intelligent elite which employ totalitarian control.

It is not an attractive solution and probably not transferable to Europe, but it does work, at least in the short term.

 

Has it been proven that world views, or belief systems, are an assist to a fully functioning brain? I've never heard of a study that implies that.

 

Could be that some are starting to recognize a problem in their midst and will perhaps do something about it.. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...smaeel-ashraf-birmingham-gender-a7843511.html

 

Overpopulation is the root of almost all problems. Why do American conservatives hate and defund birth control and family planning?

 

Alcohol use is always a possibility....

 

How exactly does civilization depend on belief in God?

Europeans are not disinterested in life. The low birthrates are due to several factors: low infant mortality rate, access to contraceptives, career oriented women marrying late, high costs involved in bringing up children in the modern world. Quality over quantity is paramount in developed countries. Life is seen as a fundamental right, not a privilege, at an individual level.

Reading your post I was reminded of children in rural regions of Eastern Europe, born in droves to very Orthodox families, used as cheap labor force - and invariably beaten, should they not complete their tasks - by their loving God-fearing parents. Of course those are the lucky ones, compared to the children taken to orphanages or just thrown out on the streets.

You're automatically assuming that the secular way of life is completely stationary, unchanging, unable to provide solutions to problems. I'd say that's the wrong approach.

 

I am not assuming anything. I am observing that the secular way of life is not reproducing itself and will inevitably disappear to be replaced by the Islamic way of life, which prizes fertility.

 

Yes; a pure, non-dogmatic atheism would really just be agnosticism. IMO you are correct, in that holding fast to a dogmatic belief that God absolutely does not exist is actually just another dogmatic belief system. However, that opens the question of what, if any, moral system should be followed, with some denying even instinctive cues as to what that should be...in general, I think it does lead to a pretty messy existence. Like a poem written without following any rules.

 

Some days I am optimistic.

But mostly I see a worn out and decadent Western culture that has so little interest in its culture that it won't ensure its growth, let alone its survival.

 

The human mind has needs that can be met through various disciplines, such as religion and meditation. Without these ways of dealing with a runaway mind, health and happiness can be impaired. An examination of how such things as biofeedback, faith, yoga, and meditation can improve health could answer your question.

 

I thought they adopted Marxism or Communism in place of traditional religion.