Sixteen years after 9/11, the American public deserves answers, not secrecy

Discussion in '9/11' started by Bob0627, Jul 11, 2017.

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  1. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    By (former Senator) Bob Graham and Dan Christensen

    Sixteen years is a long time to expect the American public to wait to know who was behind 9/11, the most significant act of terror in modern U.S. history. Unfortunately, the wait continues because of the resistance of federal agencies to openness, the over-classification of information and the weakness of the Freedom of Information Act.

    Vast numbers of investigative and intelligence documents related to 9/11 remain classified. The FBI alone has acknowledged it has tens of thousands of pages of 9/11 reports that it refuses to make public. To make matters worse, agencies withholding information tell what are essentially lies to make their actions seem as acceptable as possible.

    For example, the FBI repeatedly has said its investigation of a Saudi family who moved abruptly out of their Sarasota home two weeks before 9/11 — leaving behind their cars, clothes, furniture and other belongings — found no connections to the attacks. Yet statements in the FBI's own files that were never disclosed to Congress or the 9/11 Commission say the opposite — that the Sarasota Saudis had "many connections" to "individuals associated with the terrorist attacks on 9/11/2001."

    Trust in government today is near historic lows. Recent polls by Gallup and the Pew Research Center found that only 20 percent of Americans trust Washington to do what's right. When the people think government isn't listening to them, or giving them the respect of knowing what it is doing, it feeds into that undercurrent and denies the public the opportunity to be part of the discussion about what we should be doing.

    Read the rest ...

    http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/col...-american-public-deserves-answers-not/2329923

    "There is approximately 570 cubic feet of textual records. A large percentage of the Commission's records are national security classified files."

    https://www.archives.gov/research/9-11

    If they have nothing to hide, why are they hiding everything?
     
  2. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's nice of Bob Graham to make such statements, but nothing is going to happen. On the humorous side, if Congress had another investigation today, they would blame it all on the Russians.

    The truth is that independent thinkers in this country already know the story is fishy, and that it was some kind of inside job. Whether independent thinkers make up a majority is another matter.
     
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  3. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    According to most polls (not that they are necessarily accurate), the majority believes the US government did not tell the truth about 9/11 or at least that they haven't told the entire story.
     
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  4. cjnewson88

    cjnewson88 Well-Known Member

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    Because thankfully most people are skeptical of governments and wouldn't trust them as far as they could kick them. You could ask the same polls on almost anything and most people will vote with a "well it's the government, chances are there is bound to be something they are not telling us" attitude. With regards to 9/11 I would have voted the same way because of course there are things in a massive event like 9/11 that the government wont tell.

    But there is a big difference between thinking the government is not telling the entire story, and actually believing the government was complicit in planning and executing controlled demolitions/missiles/fake planes etc etc.

    To put to perspective, in the 2007 Zogby poll only 4.8% of the respondents thought that members of the U.S. government "actively planned or assisted some aspects of the attack."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polls_about_9/11_conspiracy_theories
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
  5. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    If it turns out that the figure isn't bogus, it will just show that most Americans aren't mentally equipped to deal with topics such as this as the proof that the US government planned and carried out the attacks is crushing.
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...orted-9-11-terrorists.456423/#post-1066183060
     
  6. cjnewson88

    cjnewson88 Well-Known Member

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    So you keep saying, yet in 16 years truthers have failed to present anything crushing at all.
     
  7. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    That's correct. The wording is inaccurate. The US government did not plan and execute 9/11. The US government consists of all state actors in all 3 branches, all its agencies, armed forces, bases around the planet and contractors. Those in the US government who may have been directly involved or complicit should always be characterized as elements within the US government. And in that case, there is doubt in my mind (personally speaking - I speak for no one but myself) that at the very least, the highest officials within the US government were complicit on the basis of a stand down on 9/11. The evidence, albeit circumstantial, is overwhelming. That no less than 12 military exercises were scheduled (several re-scheduled) and held specifically on the morning of 9/11, effectively reducing the air defense along the northeast corridor to the level that it could not defend it is just one piece of incredibly convenient coincidence. But in addition, the actions and lack of action by those at the very top of the chain of command is yet another piece of incredibly convenient coincidence. Then there is the ensuing deliberate massive destruction of evidence and the coverup (which the article just scratches the surface) and so much more that it's nearly impossible to attribute it all to just plain very convenient coincidence. And when all that is taken in conjunction with the obvious destruction of the 3 towers on 9/11 and much more, then the sum makes it impossible that those elements were not complicit and more than likely directly involved.

    In sum, if it were not for the fact that it involved the highest authorities within the US government, there would be more than enough evidence for a grand jury indictment.

    So when it's said that the evidence is "crushing" that the US government planned and carried out 9/11, that is untrue. When it's rephrased that the circumstantial evidence is "crushing" that elements within the US government were at the very least complicit in 9/11, that is 100% accurate. And an indictment of those authorities coupled with a legitimate forensic/scientific/criminal investigation would most likely uncover direct involvement.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
  8. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    If you don't think this info is crushing,...
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...orted-9-11-terrorists.456423/#post-1066183060

    ...you're just playing dumb to try to sway those viewers who don't take the time to look at it.

    http://www.whale.to/m/disin.html
    (excerpt)
    --------------------------------------
    9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.
     
  9. cjnewson88

    cjnewson88 Well-Known Member

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    The information would have to be factual for it to be crushing.
     
  10. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    An awful lot of it is factual. You might be able to make a case for some of it to be sheer conjecture but I don't believe you can refute all of it.
     
  11. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    As worded, I would have polled with the majority. But if the question had been phrased a little more accurately, saying "rogue agents or members of the US government", the response would have been different.

    It's not like Congress got together and planned this, but the so-called Deep State most certainly did. Just as rogue agents of the CIA (a majority of the agency?) have been in the drug business for decades, so too rogue agents, many with covert connections to foreign governments, some with dual citizenship with foreign governments, planned and executed the attacks that day.
     
  12. RoccoR

    RoccoR Well-Known Member Donor

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    RE: Sixteen years after 9/11, the American public deserves answers, not secrecy
    ※→ et al,

    What I found interesting is:


    dkvnto6zb0kw5c0shdj57q.png
    Pew Poll Over Time.png
    I think it is quite clear that the integrity of our Mass Media Journalism Professionals, and our Elected Politicians is in grave question.

    Why do we even listen to them?

    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
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  13. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Another example. To believe the official narrative is to believe the 9/11 Commission was honest and uncompromised for the most part. It also means one has to believe the 9/11 Commission Report for the most part. Why? Because that is the heart of the official narrative.

    I posted 29 facts about the above. While perhaps one or two of these may be disputable (no one has successfully disputed any thus far), most of these are irrefutable. And if one accepts that the vast majority are facts, one would have to agree that they contradict the reliability of the 9/11 Commission and their report and render the official narrative not credible.

     
  14. Cornergas

    Cornergas Active Member

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    The whole planet deserves the truth about 9/11, as this event served to destabilize the entire planet political structure....Boner Bush Jr...knows he is guilty of treason and war crimes, along with his bum buddy Cheney, Rumsfeld etc, as well as his "associates" from Saudi Arabia...so he must be messing himself every time someone starts getting closer to having the "secret" documents released...what a poor excuse for a human being...he should be treated like they treated Saddam Hussein.
     
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  15. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Bob

    If this link works, I would be interested in your thoughts. This is the analysis show "the ball" that hit the south tower.

     
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  16. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that video. I have seen other videos questioning the many anomalies seen. For example, the "nose" of the plane seen after plowing through the building (dismissed as "smoke" that looks like the nose by OCT defenders) and the plane going through the building like it was made of butter. Others show a bright white spot on the wall of the building in front of the nose of the plane immediately prior to impact for both planes. There is another poster who constantly posts about the "ball", that there was no plane at all. Of course the rabid OCT defenders dismiss all no-planers as nutters. But then again they feel the same about those who insist on controlled demolitions and inside job. And rather than question any of it, every single incredible anomaly, no matter how trivial, has a "perfectly logical explanation".

    For me all these questions add up to that there are an incredible amount of convenient coincidences and inexplicable anomalies about 9/11, none of which have been approached by any of these pretend investigations and all deliberately ignored by the MSM. At the end of the day, the primary issue is that 9/11 was never legitimately investigated by the US government and the truth about 9/11 was deliberately covered up. Even if I believed the OCT for the most part, that fact will never change. The other fact that will never change is that the US government did NOTHING realistic to prevent or stop 9/11, 4 targets that were destroyed to perfection seemingly as planned. And the motive is etched in current history, an endless war under pretext of 9/11 benefiting the military industrial complex and other related individuals and entities.

    I keep bringing this up. It would have been a simple matter to forensically examine the few alleged recovered plane debris and match the serial numbers to the logs of the 4 claimed planes. This is especially true for the CVRs and FDRs. Even one match might have ended at least that controversy. That it was never done regardless that it is standard investigative protocol certainly points to the very likely possibility that none of these parts belong to the claimed planes. And that is supported by all the other criminal shenanigans the US government did following 9/11.
     
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  17. saltydancin

    saltydancin Banned

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    Watched what looked like just a filming of another "Independence Day" movie on the Today Show until sometime after cleaning up breakfast where it wasn't a movie trailer at all, but not sure of where to find the "Official Conspiracy Theory for 9/11", but an educated guess from almost 2 decades ago of anyone in D.C. & Israel aware of business as usual of the Catholic Church in it's crusades for their second coming of Christ for Y2K thru it's Fourth Reich quest visions of Rehnquists' drug trafficking thieving US Constitution arsonists of West Nazi Germany Virginia with multitudes of immaculate conceptions of fabricated misnomers dictating they would kill all the Jews in NYC back in the mid '70's in attempting to lynch an American born at GW hospital in Washington, D.C. as an Arab for having a gravesite in Israel while dining on Capital Hill, laughing off all evidence of stolen old testaments & President presented old glorys for business excellence, which were in all statistical probability burned as if their "man is God" edict was above one nation under God as Nazi war criminals did at the Nuremberg Trials, like Islam literary masterpieces in rubbing old lamps where genies appear so as to ride flying carpets fulfilling wishes. Since it's entourage of Federal Lynching state of hate enforcement KKK churchstate cops where, under color of law attempt to lynch a Washington, D.C. American born citizen again as an Arab for having an Israel gravesite as an Arab terrorist that threatened to kill POTUS & nuke Temple Mount who were phonetically identified & set free by churchstate immaculate drug trafficking conceptions again at the FBI prior to 9/11 got thwarted thus initiating human farming technique jihad based mass neuroses of fascism to induce mass psychoses of fascism thru baptizing eyes by urination so they never would get prosecuted; where KKK churchstate cops within a few hours later in throwing urinations out of a glass in one's face while at lunch just discussing Washington, D.C. sports teams to attempt to baptize eyes by urination are questioned "you homicidal sociopsychopathic suicidal Islam Christiananality pedophile mentalities" going to baptize these eyes by urination again after your second coming culmination climax just as these eyes were baptized by urinations before & after the assassination of JFK as that Papal entourage of thieving a JFK presented old glory & old testament bereavement memorial arsonists?" with a response of "yeah, gonna learn Jew".......in the presence of so many of those high paid Godvernment of drugs, Godvernment of death crooks on Capitol Hill which fix elections by using Nazi economics to dismiss stolen absentee voting ballots with superegos of too dang lily brilliant white Star Bellied Sneeches with Stars Upon Thars obviously so cross conditioned way beyond therapy as a master race master plan to make Nazington, D.C. the standard until their Fifth Reich formation as the law of the land thru a supreme swastika up Uranus court of these megalomaniacal "serve the Pope or die" in a more perfect union of Christianity & Islam demented & deranged so as to rule the earth & destroy the world in this universe.....
     
  18. Cornergas

    Cornergas Active Member

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    You

    You are right on Bob, we deserve answers to the hundreds of unanswered questions. The government has refused to do a proper investigation and has chosen to cover up all the pertinent facts and questions...this confirms their culpability and conspiracy.
     
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  19. RoccoR

    RoccoR Well-Known Member Donor

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    RE: Sixteen years after 9/11, the American public deserves answers, not secrecy
    ※→ Cornergas, et al,

    How do you know that "the government has refused to do a proper investigation?"

    (COMMENT)

    I always marvel at American's that consistently complain that their rights are violated by federal, state and local investigators and law enforcement officials; yet are first in line to cast accusations about failures to detect, exploit and neutralize national internal security threats.

    I marvel at the audacity of the 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists that claim to have clear insights to the various national security, intelligence, law enforcement and congressional investigations and sling accusations about based on imperfect information.

    What do these Conspiracy Theorists know about Terrorism targeting America (then or now) that the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks (NCTA) did not have access? Not to mention the inquiries made by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), and the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE).

    • Are they talking about questions raised by conspiracy know-it-all's?
    • Or did they have original questions of your own? ​

    I just love the 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists that claim the Pentagon was not struck by a Boeing 757. And I had to laugh at the allegations that the Boeing 767 that hit the South Tower had some sort of suspicious "pod" attached. And it is virtually impossible for the suggestion that the "Air Force was ordered to Stand Down on 9/11." At that time, there was no domestic Air Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ); or a standard domestic intercept plan.

    Conspiracy Theorists want their 15 minutes of fame. They want to be involved and feel important. But in most cases Conspiracy Theorists have contributed little in the way of disclosing information of importance or assisting in investigatory processes.

    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
  20. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    You can't make it go away by laughing at it.
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/the-pentagon-on-9-11.482175/

    Was Extra Equipment Attached To Flight 175? (The plane that struck the south Twin Tower on 9/11)
     
  21. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Because the FACTS speak for themselves and they are irrefutable:

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...mission-scam-exposed-in-all-its-glory.495859/
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/the-nist-9-11-scam-exposed-in-all-its-glory.458597/

    http://www.911truth.org/images/resources/Family_Steering_Cmte-review_of_Report.pdf

    That's debatable, you're not addressing individual posters, instead using a MSM label designed to ridicule ("9/11 conspiracy theorists"). Nothing above is a "conspiracy theory", it's all factual.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
  22. RoccoR

    RoccoR Well-Known Member Donor

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    RE: Sixteen years after 9/11, the American public deserves answers, not secrecy
    ※→ Scott, et al,

    Yes, for several of years now, this allegation conspiracy buffs has been surfaced over and over again.

    (COMMENT)

    First, let's remember that the Boeing 767 had an pre-flight and walk around inspection by at least one of the pilots prior to take-off; not to mention ground crew activity in and around the aircraft. And, I believe the FAA, NTSB and FBI all interviewed the airport and airline employees that were involved with the aircraft prior to departure; having "first-hand" visuals in close to very close proximity.

    In addition to the Space Photographic Lab (Arizona State), the several intelligence agencies that have extensive photo interpretation assets examined the available footage. The claim of a flash explosion from the "alleged pod" was unsubstantiated. Remember, as many people remarked, it was a very beautiful clear day. Not only where there reflective surfaces on the aircraft itself, but there were reflective surfaces on the Tower.

    Conspiracy Theorists (lacking critical thinking knowledge and skills) with conspiracy fantasies (political assassinations, organized racism, extraordinarily dangerous stalkers, mind control experiments and operations, latent bureaucracies, the influence exerted over the people by powerful corporations, invisible and shadow governments) and cover-up hypotheses (the Kennedy and King Assassinations, "Project Rainbow", Pearl Harbor, UFO's and Area 51, etc) almost appear to need (like therapy) as a means of coping with distressing events and make sense out of them. While Conspiracy Theorists don't normally hurt people or present a danger (some are actually entertaining), you certainly don't want such characters controlling the reigns over life and death situations regarding real people in reality.

    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
  23. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know where you get this drivel from but there are many people who earn a very lucrative living based on a career of conspiracy theory. These include most of the legal and enforcement industries (police, criminal investigators, attorneys, prosecutors, judges, FBI, CIA, all legislators that enact criminal conspiracy legislation, etc.). They are usually well educated and well trained in conspiracy theory and many are HIGHLY SKILLED in critical thinking and knowledge. You are generalizing from government and MSM propaganda because it's obvious you're in denial (you failed to respond to the facts I posted about the 9/11 "investigations").
     
  24. saltydancin

    saltydancin Banned

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    Who else would be expected to be able to carry out & cover up investigations of conspiracy that could actually get away with it ?
     
  25. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Obviously the US government can and does get away with many criminal activities, even when caught. For example:

     
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