Israel thinking of installing the death penalty for terrorists

Over 70% of Jewish Israelis support death penalty for terrorists — poll

Following brutal attack, vast majority of public backs calls by prominent ministers to implement capital punishment

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his wife Sara console relatives of the three members of the Salomon family who were killed in a terror attack in Halamish on July 22, 2017.

In Israel, the death penalty is applicable only in limited circumstances, and has only been carried out once in a civilian court, against Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann, one of the architects of the Final Solution, in 1962.
In the wake of a brutal terrorist attack in the West Bank settlement of Halamish last month in which three members of a family were stabbed to death, a number of prominent ministers, including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, expressed their belief that Israeli military courts should seek the death penalty for the Palestinian attacker.

Read on here:
http://www.timesofisrael.com/over-70-of-jewish-israelis-support-death-penalty-for-terrorists-poll/
--------
What is your opinion? Should Palestinian "terrorists" be executed?
I think, they might as well, IF they apply the same penalty to the settler and IDF terrorists who kill Palestinians!
Something must have happened that incited this 19 year old youth to commit these murders.
It is a sad affair for both sides.

 

RE: Israel thinking of installing the death penalty for terrorists
※→ et al,

Most of the arguments for the making "Terrorism" a capital offense (death penalty potential) are both 1) moral and ethical dilemma --- 2) Effective Application of Penalties:

• The Definition and Elements of the Offense of Terrorism and the Criminal Terrorist.

→ The terrorism and terrorists (against Israel), normally associated with Muslims of the Arab League and Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP), must be clearly defined and distinguishable from other criminals and crimes. While this sounds lie a non-issue, it is clearly not.​

• Death Penalty Failed as a Deterrent and Does not Discourage the Crime..

→ In most instances, wherein the criminal case deals with persons associated with Muslims of the Arab League and Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP), are not deterred by death; but appear to embrace it. The HoAP and other members of the Arab League, have been conducting Suicidal operations since well before the establishment of the Jewish State.​

• Does a Terrorist Fear Death

→ The HoAP and other members of the Arab League, are not afraid of death, but expect to be well rewarded, acknowledged as a martyr, and their families compensated for their contribution to the Anti-Jewish movement.​

The execution of an Arab Muslim Terrorist, especially the HoAP, must be so strikingly frightening, as to be a counter-terrorism act in itself. It should be made public that the execution will include the Arab Muslim Terrorist being wrapped in a pig sin. And the body of the executed Muslim will NOT be washing; but instead covered in the filth of the pig. This is the "Black Jack Effect."

​

See the Video:
General Pershing - The Solution Of The Islamic Terrorism - "Black Jack"
Most Respectfully,
R

 

I never support the death penalty I guess I should say that but he is a 19 year old boy. His family have already had to leave their house so that Israel will destroy it to punish them for having a son who acted in this manner - the people made homeless include elderly grandparents and a new bably - not sure if it is born yet. His father could not believe he had done this. He could not believe he could even think of doing this. Apparently he was watching tv and saw the killings of Palestinians in the peaceful protest against Israel's actions at Al Aqsa. That is two Palestinians by Israelis - don't know if they are army or police and one Palestinian who from what I heard was killed by a settler. He then goes and kills 3 settlers. It sounds like he might have lost it.

I would be disgusted if they killed him. However if they do from a point of view of Justice they surely must also kill the settler and possibly also the soldiers/police if as I have heard there was no need to kill anyone. The settler's family should now be homeless but I do not think Israel has ever done that to an Israeli Jew. Whatever happens one thing we can be sure of it will have nothing to do with justice.

 

Israel being a powerful terror state is only reaping what it has and still is sowing. The HoAP are only trying to defend themselves and their homeland. They have all the right to use whatever means they can muster to retaliate... Israel is the intruder, not the other way around!!

Your example of General Pershing reflects roughly the same scenario... subjugating the native people of a certain piece of land, in this case the Philippines in 1899. How heroic of the Americans! 200 000 civilians were killed, more likely double that amount. Then calling resistance fighters "terrorists!" and try to scare the holy daylights out of them.

In reality, the Americans are the terrorists and the Israelis, too. Both of them are violating international law and committing war crimes and crimes against humanity.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/usa-top-terrorist-state/

 

I agree, there will be no justice. There never has been justice done to the Palestinians. Israel wants and takes their land and the Pals can go and jump in the lake. Period. Anything else is just meaningless lipflapping. .

 

Well he had put a bit more thought into this than I knew.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/three-hurt-one-critically-in-suspected-stabbing-attack-in-west-bank/

It seems a bit weird that he would say he wanted to commit a 'terror' attack. I am guessing he did say he had decided to attack and they added the terror bit.

No one takes any account of what the Palestinians go through as the 22% left of their homeland which they had agreed they would accept as their State while recognising the State ofIsrael is bit by bit taken over with its resources as they are held prisoner....and yes, you are right about the superior colonial attitude of the Israelis as they try to 'subdue' the people whose land it historically is. I am not condoning the killing of civilians but a) the number of unarmed Palestinians Israel kills is vastly more and when you keep people prisoner while you take their land, yes of course they have every right to fight back. Obviously this was a soft target and I am sorry that they have been killed and their families are suffering although I can also understand why get so angry and lash out. They would would do better just attacking soldiers - mind you not that Israel restricted herself to military when she was doing her terrorism prior to the creation of Israel.

I truly am sickened having read this at the weekend.

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/41478-gaza-ten-years-of-economic-blockade

I found that having watched the below and doing a search to see how the people of Gaza, forgotten by the world, are doing.

 

WOW, that's a powerful video!
60% of all drones come from Israel.
Israel invented individual drone killing!!
Abu Graib torture techniques developed in Israel... the Palestinian chair!


Gaza being a new weapons testing ground!!
American police goes to Israel for training!
Now American Corporate State seeks to make Palestinians of us all!!

This evil is so big I shudder.

 

It is absolutely shocking. I have heard other people saying this but when you start getting people like Chris Hedges, wake up and yes, the transfer of methods to the States is alarming. I did know before that American Police were going to Israel to train. This came up when there was all the shooting of unarmed black people. (don't know if that is still going on). So yes, Hedges is concerned about this being transferred to treating minorities in the US in similar way. In an interview with two political activists from Ferguson, you will never guess who they said they got the most support from when they were going through their troubles - the Palestinians! Hedges is seriously concerned about the US moving towards fascism, not just with Trump - and of course what they are doing would most certainly go with that.

 

RE: Israel thinking of installing the death penalty for terrorists
※→ Jazz, et al,

Well, I'm not sure that I agree with any any point or belief you have cited here. It is not the case that the Jewish State of Israel needs a Secular American to open a defense for its actions. Having said that it is important to remember, that all men are fallible; and governments are created by man. The governments of the nations in the world are not perfect. And certainly, all religions are creations of man; thus, just as fallible.

(ALTERNATIVE VIEW and PERSPECTIVE)
​

(COMMENT)

Define a "terror state." Israel, as any "state," has the inherent right of individual self-defense. Just as the Arab League Members are to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity the Jewish State of Israel.

The territorial control over what is sometime called the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) was never under the independence of the West Bank population. It had been under the Mandate until May 1948, and then came under the control of the Jordanians until July 1988.

(COMMENT)

In the case of the West Bank, between April 1950 and the end of July 1988, it was Sovereign Territory of the Hashemite King. In July 1988, the Hasemite King publically announced that it would break all ties with the West Bank. When the prior sovereign (Jordan) had expressly relinquished sovereignty over the West Bank; the territory becomes "Terra Nullius." International Law says that "

There are two requirements acquiring territorial sovereignty:

(i) the territory subject to claim must not be under the sovereignty of nay state ( terra nullius)
(ii) the state must have effectively occupied the territory."​

The Jewish State of Israel had effective control over the West Bank since 1967.

(COMMENT)

I'm not sure I get your point. The Philippines Islands were (collectively) sovereign US Territory. The US did not grant the Philippines independence until after WWII (See the Fact Book).
Spain declared war on the United States. At the conclusion of the Spanish-American War, Spain and the United States signed a peace treaty in Paris on December 10, 1898, which established the independence of Cuba, ceded Puerto Rico and Guam to the United States, and a the Philippines Islands from Spain. Article III, Treaty of Paris.

• Independence Day, 12 June 1898 from Spain;
• Independence Day, 4 July 1946 from the US.
​

The Philippine Action was actually more like a "domestic security campaign." It was sovereign territory of the United States. Under the international common law of that era, the US was to defend its territory against insurrection.

(COMMENT)

There is not question, that there are regions of the world in which the US exerts the necessary political, economic, or military predominance or control over other states. We call this a "Hegemony;" and America, like every other major and intermediate powers on Earth, acts in it own best interest. This is not "terrorism," but the protection and advancement of American commercial, industrial, intellectual and scientific position in the world.

This is why (CY 2016) America ranked 10th on the Human Development Index (HDI) and Israel Ranked 19th on the HDI. No nation of the Arab League (22 Member Nation) ranked higher than that of Qatar which ranked 33d (within the top 50 ranked states: Saudi Arabia 38, UAE 42, Barain 47).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

I can agree with that, knowing myself a little bit!

Israel's illegal land grab and terror against the Pals is well known and documented, no need to rehash that.

No, it was more like the first Vietnam!
Some 600 000 Filipinos were killed in that 10-year war!! That's brutal! Only after WW2 did they regain some independence, but the US made sure they retained their military bases and control over the economy.

My source:
http://www.colorado.edu/AmStudies/lewis/2010/usoccupy.htm

Oh, I see! That sounds so lovely! Starting with bombing Germany to Smithereens, then starving to death 1.7 million German soldiers AFTER they had surrendered; dropping the worlds first two atom bombs on Japan; devastating Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Libya etc.
The surviving victims will find it hard not to call America's actions terrorism, especially the torture victims.
You can't fool me by saying you are fighting the terrorists... no, you are the terrorists, fighting innocent countries.

Human development... USA ranks 10th. Well, you are wasting so much money on destroying other countries that you have not enough left to educate your children properly and to keep your people healthy.
It is little Norway that leads the chart as #1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...Development_Index#Very_high_human_development

Sincerely;
Z

 

I think that anyone convicted of being caught in the act of preparing a mass murder atrocity should themselves be murdered in likewise fashion as they'd been planning to inflict against unsuspecting men, women and children. No point giving them a prison sentence, A) because it won't deter others who have the same intention, and B) the offender will obviously have a re-try upon release from custody.

 

That is hardly surprising given that your desire is this

You have totally dehumanised the Palestinians to help you of course in what you erroneously claim later.

The people living here for up to 5,000 years (Uri Avnery) whose genetics suggest they are the closest relatives of the ancient Jews, to you do not have a right to their land because they had not gone through the European system of ethnic nation states – the very idea which East European Jews picked up on and thought 'whey hey, well we will just go and take over a land we had for a couple of hundred years thousands of years ago. We are Europeans so we will act just like them and throw the people living there out. It is our turn to be Colonialists. We will at last have our own ethnic National State'. ...and of course these ethnic national states which Israel wants to copy led in the end to the death of millions and millions of people including around 5,000,000 Jews. Of course Christian Zionists had been pressing for this since they got their bibles and wrongly read them believing they had to get Jews back into Israel so that their religious texts would come true, as well of course as getting rid of them due to antisemitism.



You wish to desecrate the bodies of Palestinians after you have executed them for Terrorism. How hypocritical. Israel involved herself in mass terrorism, including mass terrorism against Jews whose views were different from those who came with the European Ethnic Nationalist views. Due to the tragedy which European Jews had experienced, the UN against both its Charter and the conscience of many people who voted in agreement, after having been forced to have an emergency break in which people were blackmailed and bribed came back and gave the 'recommendation' of two states giving 55% to the Jews although even with the mass immigration both legal and illegal they still were only one third of the population and owned only 7% of the land. This was never legally binding.

The British records say that the Arab Palestinians were open to a resolution but that the Zionists were exceedingly aggressive and would only agree to a deal which they knew would be so excessive the Arabs could never agree to. The UN vote though was still nowhere near as much as the ethnic nationalist Zionists wanted but they believed it did give them some form of legitimacy. They set to work on Plan Dalet and were engaging in massacres and ethnic cleansing so much that the Arab States on the demands of their people who were deeply concerned about what was happening to the indigenous people of Palestine, as well of course as not wanting more mouths to feed but also with the possibility of getting a little bit of what was to have been the Palestinian State for themselves decided to go to war. They were also very divided not least due to the position of Jordan. Nonetheless, In the beginning they were successful, less troops but better weapons but after the cease fire which Israel disobeyed and got armed up with the best weapons of the day, with her superior weapons and numbers she managed to take almost all the area she had decided on. East Jerusalem to her annoyance was taken by the Jordanians. Prior to the war Israel and the Jordanians agreed that the Jordanians would take the West Bank. They had a good army and could have posed a threat to Israel. Israel accepted this deal for that reason and also because Israel thought it would not be acceptable if she took all of what was to have been the state for the indigenous people, for the time being. It was never Israel's idea that this would be for ever. Israel then had 78% of Palestine including 28% of what was to be the state for the indigenous population.

While Jordan did offer the people of the West Bank citizenship, it's sovereignty over it was only accepted by the UK, who helped Jordan fight for it, and Iraq and Pakistan. The area was part of what was to have been the state for the indigenous people but also included many who had been indigenous people, ethnically cleansed who were supposed to be part of the other state.



I am sure you are well aware that Israel has no right of the West Bank. While it would seem most Israelis fool themselves that Jerusalem is theirs, particularly East Jerusalem, only extremists think they can change the law and make it so with the rest of the West Bank. I don't know if you are an Israeli but whether you are or not you belong to a small group of extremists whose interpretation of the law is the opposite of that seen by the entire rest of the world including the United States. Israel has been occupying the West Bank keeping the people prisoner under Military rule, illegally settling the west bank and stealing their resources in particular water since 67.

I am not sure what you believe

has to do with the issue at hand and why you believe arab states not being so high gives Israel the right to go against International laws. Both the US and Israel are high among countries for torture, with Israel that includes children and some of that has been spoken about in this thread. Israel is also is in the second lowest group for freedom of the press. Only the very worst are worse for her. She would have been convicted many times for crimes against humanity and war crimes if it were not for the support of her partner in arms, the United States.

However I also find interesting how you try to show how beneath you arab states are. I was listening to Finkelstein talking about the 67 war yesterday. In it he spoke about how Israel had always been scared that the Middle East would produce someone like Ataturk and have an awakening similar to that which Turkey had which would bring her out of her 'backwardness'. Right from the beginning he said this was a big fear of Ben Gurion's.and Nasser he said appeared to offer such a threat. The West also he said has always wanted to keep the Arabs down. This he believes was part of the reason for the 56 war - a very strong motivation among both the Israelis and the British. He spoke about it very well. We can see that this is what Israel is doing also in her warehousing of the Palestinians both in the West Bank and in the Gaza strip, where even worst crimes are alleged against her,

 

There is already a posibility for death penelty in the army. According to Article 21 of the Military Justice Law, a military court can sentence a soldier to death, if the soldier betrayed, gave information to the enemy or essisted the enemy in any way in time of war. And according to Article 193(a) the death penelty will be executed by a shot.

A death penelty for terrorists must be existed, but the killing by itself will not stop the terror, because the goal of the terrorists is to die, and go to their 72 virgins. Therefore, after the killing the body needs to be burried with parts of pig and dog on the body. That's why the terrorist could not arrive to heaven and to his 72 virgins.

 

Oh right, that'll be why they have to kidnap them out of hospitals to bury.

https://972mag.com/even-in-death-palestinians-have-to-fight-for-their-freedom/128908/

and doing this to people you have a responsibility of care to., How far into the dirt are Israelis going to go.

You know what they say 'what goes around comes around'.

 

RE: Israel thinking of installing the death penalty for terrorists
※→ alexa, et al,

I respect your position and your right to believe these political impressions. But, I do not have to agree with the impressions, opinions, or dialog.

(COMMENT)

I don't believe that I deprived the Arab Palestinians (hostile or otherwise) any positive human qualities; they do that themselves. Just as an example, the just last year, Palestinians celebrated the martyrdom of Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Fatah Terrorist Dalal al-Mugrabi (former aid to Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas), who killed the niece of Senator Abraham Ribicoff (D-Connecticut) and 36 other unarmed civilians.

The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) in remembrance of the "Hero and Matyr" built and named a park in Ramallah as Dalal Mughrabi Square. It was a double-edged insult for praising both a terrorist and condoning as a heroic action the gunning down of unarmed civilians (non-combatants) -- highlighting the murder of an American Journalist, Gail Rubin.

It is the HoAP's that dehumanize themselves simply by the action of placing so little value on human life. And over the years, since the time of the Palestinian Black Hand (PBH), the HoAP have carried-on the tradition started by Sheikh Izz ad-Din al-Qassam (founder of the PBH). The al-Qassam Brigade [the military wing of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)] and the HoAP's most popular rocket (Ṣārūkh al-Qassām) fired at Israel, are named after the notorious Terrorist and prominent member of the Young Men's Muslim Association (where he made many recruitment's).

(COMMENT)

I am unimpressed by a 5000 year-old claim. What have they governed lately? Let's say in the last thousand years. (which is still neither here nor there). As was pointed out by Dr Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Astrophysicist, Director of the Hayden Planetarium, there are about 15.5 million Jews in the world, as compared to the Muslims that number 1.6 billion. Just look at the number of Noble Prizes awarded for their contribution to science --- to Israelis, as compared to that of anyone in the entire Arab League.

(COMMENT)

Well, this is not all correct. The Principle Allied Powers decided (San Remo Convention - 1920) on formalizing the adoption of the principles outlined in the Balfour Declaration; this is when the sage begins. This is well before the UN Charter of 1945. At the turn of the century, the personalities in the Allied Powers that controlled half the world by 1918, had made critical decision on the disposition of the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic. These personalities saw a need to establish a national home for the Jewish Populations in the world → then, and for the that culture well into the → future.

The world leaders of the Allied Powers had much loftier ideals then is demonstrated by the is exhibited today by the regional powers of the Middle East and Persian Gulf. This is especially true when one examples the political and economic impact, the various destabilized countries, and the tensions exhibited by the aggressive nations.

The recommendations by the UN Commission on Palestine (UNCOP) that ultimately lead to the adoption by the general assembly [A/RES/181(II)]. However, with or without the Resolution, there is no question that the Jewish Agency created by the Mandate for Palestine (Article 4), would have announced independence anyway. The eople under the umbrella of the Jewish Agency would have declared independence on lines very similar to the Jewish State as outlined in Part II (Boundaries), Section B (Jewish State), of the Resolution of November 1947 [181(II)].

(COMMENT)

Well, this is double speak and political flimflam. It presupposes that international recognition is somehow required before the Jordanian Annexation of 1950 could be legal. Nothing is farther from the truth. The Montevideo Treaty of 1933 (Convention on Rights and Duties of States) sets the precedent.

Article 3

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts. The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law.​

(COMMENT)

And why would you assume that?

Article 1

The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications:

a. a permanent population;

b. a defined territory;

c. government; and

d. capacity to enter into relations with the other states.​

(COMMENT)

Well, this is just so wrong, and requires a complete rewrite.

The West Bank Government which Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas likes to call the State of Palestine is a undefined territory. It seems to include territory which it never actually controlled and has no sovereignty over. (Again, I refer you to Article 3, supra.)

Article 10 Treaty of Montevideo 1933

The primary interest of states is the conservation of peace. Differences of any nature which arise between them should be settled by recognized pacific methods.​

Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States, [A/RES/2625 (XXV) 24 October 1970]

Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or terrorist acts in another State or acquiescing in organized activities within its territory directed towards the commission of such acts, when the acts referred to in the present paragraph involve a threat or use of force.​

(COMMENT)

Well, that was not the context to which I intended the comment to be applied. It is the other way around. The nature of the HoAP, and its impasse on following the International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States has an adverse effect upon the Human Development as wel as, the commercial, industrial and economic conditions that raise the quality of life for the constituents of any nation.

(COMMENT)

Matters of internal security and domestic issues are a separate topic altogether.

Chapter 1 (Purpose and Principles), Article 2(7) Charter of the United Nations

Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.​

(COMMENT)

Professor Israel Finkelstein is an archaeologist. While he enjoys a very good reputation for the derivation of political and theoretical political issues, his explanations fall prey to the factthat they are not always fully explained.

Actually, the War of Independence ('48-'49) the Six Day War ('67) are not entirely over yet. Only Egypt and Jordan have Treaties and mutually agreed upon defined borders.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

It seems you didnt read the article that 972mag is directing it's readers to.
The article that their readers are been directed to after clicking on the passage: "smuggle out of an East Jerusalem hospital the corpse", is an article on a case that Arabs shot dead by Israeli forces in a violent demonstration over Al-Aqsa mosque. What is written there is the total opposite to what you claim. You claim that the Israeli forces smuggled out an Arab corpse from an hospital from East Jerusalm, even tough the article of 972mag, shows that it was actually the Arabs that smuggled the Arab corpse out of the hospital:

Source: https://972mag.com/photos-several-palestinians-shot-dead-in-jerusalem-clashes/128811/

 

I am not sure the death penalty would be an effective deterrent for those who place little value on their own life in the first place. If anything, they should lose more territory if they insist on being a threat.

 

cut for space



What you are doing is not proving that you do not dehumanise the Palestinians in saying your desire is to desecrate their dead bodies but rather just trying to present more options to justify your demonisation. I could give you worse about things the Israelis have done. To do that willy nilly, without reference to what is being discussed is generally called antisemitism. What is right towards one people is right towards another.

what I said was up to 5000 years and I told you the claim was from URI Avnery not me. I however pointed out that genetics suggest that the Palestinians have the closest connection to the ancient Jews. Of course that is genetic research suggesting that.

Right people who do not have self rule to you are not there. That is irrational. The Palestinians were offered self rule for helping the British to get destroy the Ottoman Empire. Not their fault that Imperialists are so duplicitous.

That still makes absolutely no difference as to how long the Palestinians have been living in Palestine. If you give answers which do not address what you are answering they have no reference and mean nothing.

cut for space

This is what I said

again this is not dealing with the issues I produced which are correct. You can find out about Zionist terrorism including Zionist terrorism against Jews in State of Terror - How terrorism created modern Israel Thomas Suárez . I have bought this book and read a fair bit of it. It is sourced mainly from archives. I stopped reading it because I got bored of all the pages listing the terrorism.

The information concerning what happened at the UN was again extremely well sourced and came from What Price Israel? by Alfred M Lilienthal, an American 'Conservative' Jew who was working with the State Department at the time of the UN vote. Again well sourced. You are wrong. What I said is correct. Just a little addition - you may not know this but most American's and British Jews were antizionists unti Holocaust and even after - bet you think all DP'swanted to live in Israel?? well not really. Only 16% at the first poll. That book is online In the Shadow of the Holocaust.The Struggle between Jews and Zionists in the Aftermath of the Holocaust by Yoself Grodzinksy. The author did work or works in the Psychology Faculty oatTel Aviv University.

OK I think this probably comes under the same problems as your belief that Israel owns the West Bank.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank

Whether you want to argue against that is by the way. Your interest will be to try and argue again your claim that the West Bank is legally Israeli. It is not. As I said only extremist Israelis even think the West Bank is Israeli. The Jerusalem Post does not though it also knows there are people such as yourself trying to argue otherwise. The author is arguing against such. Funnily enough he is arguing against someone who was arguing the opposite of you - that because Jordan's annexation of the West Bank was illegal illegal there was no lawful sovereign to give it back to. However the reality is Israel is involved in Belligerent Occupation in the West Bank.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-...ts-are-illegal-under-international-law-336507

cut for space.

Why would I assume that?
International Law.
I think you will find this is well dealt with in the quote and link I have given you above from the Jerusalem Post
​

No, you are wrong again. I again refer you to the article above.
​

Nonsense. The occupation stops, particularly Gaza from developing but this is very true of the West Bank as well.

So, you proved that the occupation harms the life chances of the Palestinians. I agree with that.

No sweetheart you are thinking of Israel Finkelstein. Not who I was talking about. That is Norman Finkelstein.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Finkelstein

 

RE: Israel thinking of installing the death penalty for terrorists
※→ alexa, et al,

Yes, this is a huge conversation with many facets. Our perspectives are hugely different. Your positive Palestinian lens and my view as an outside observer that sees, yet once again, the Anti-Semitic Majority use the color of law to achieve a political outcome that they could not achieve through diplomatic efforts. On the same day of Israeli Independence → a combined force element of the Arab League attacked Israel from all sides using force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel.

Can you single out a specific allegation (one of two at a time) that we might debate a little more in detail? I'm an little old and poor Sicilian Boy trying to learn things late in life. And I am only about as shape as a butter knife. I see and appreciate some your many challenges.

(COMMENT)

√ Backing-up a bit --- again, this is not a matter of "dehumanization." This is merely revisiting a countermeasure that has proven itself to be useful and effective against against a very similar adversary. I believe we differ in terms of rot vantage points. You (it would appear) see the Arab Palestinian to be a victim of oppression exerted by a vastly superior opponent with no standing in the regional territory under dispute. Where as I see the Arab Palestinian as a source of direct support fostering Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.

√ I am not discussing, in the application of the Black Jack Effect, a process that might dehumanize or demonize the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP), but the implementation of a solution taken to offset HoAP organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities. And to diminish the desirability of the indigenous population from providing material support to Jihadist, Virulent Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters. As a general concept, nothing the Israeli Defense Force has applied in the last four decades, has proven to be an effective tactical solution to prevent an undesirable outcome and future hostile action. It may be time to try something more radical.

√ The moral reciprocity or exchanging "what is right" with Arab Palestinians for the purpose of achieving a mutual benefit sounds like something that makes sense; but has proven extremely difficult to attain in the practical world. It is a moral question and dilemma for both sides. It is why the HoAP found it necessary to create the Black Hand, and a follow-on series of undesirables.

√ Throughout history, no Major World Power came to be a Major World Power (or maintained that status) without running afoul of ethical and moral dilemma. From ancient times (5000 years ago --- Bronze Age for Mediterranean and Eastern European) to the present day (the Age of Quantum Physics and Nuclear Medicine) ethics and morals have developed differently from culture to culture. I consider ethical relativism (morality is derived from the norms within the culture) in a constant struggle against the undertow of the growing belief that morals are subjective; with no moral absolutes, no universally accepted right and wrong.

(COMMENT)

Well, genetic research has come a very long way in the last century; but it still has a long way to go. Anthropologically, if follow the genetic record --- all humanity might find a common ancestor. But in the practical sense, it has no useful purpose. Historical ancestry, heritage, and ethnic background has no bearing on the sovereign host. I am second generation American, with a grandmother from Majorca (Spanish - Mediterranean) and a grandfather that was from Regione Siciliana (Italian Sicily - Mediterranean). I doesn't make me any less American than the sovereign Wyandot and Shawnee who live here before me.

(COMMENT)
Did I really say that? It is kinds hard to miss the presences of the Arab Palestinian. But again, you are confusing those that have sovereign power and those that a subjects of that sovereign power. HM Abdullah II bin Al-Hussein, King of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, can trace his linage back to Shiekh Hussein bin Ali, Sharif of Mecca; and is a direct descendant of Muhammad (PBUH). But HM is still Jordanian.

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Just because the Arab Palestinians had tenure in the territory does not render unto them sovereignty.

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Yes, I've seen the book "State of Terror." This is another pro-HoAP book that defends terrorism with the argument, the Israelis did it first. Thomas Suárez acknowledges HoAP terrorism, but blames it on Zionist ethnic subjugation and expropriation of land. And this is the whining and constant drumbeat: "resources and labour, with non-violent resistance having proved futile.”

All nation states work to there best interest. Rarely does a state take action with the direct intention of self-harming their nation.

Israel wants to establish defensible borders. Yes there are still some "Zionist Voices" out there, but the intent is to give Israel more than 5 minutes warning on border crossing in force.

During the pre-1948 lead-up to the Arab League Invasion, there were a number of Jewish Resistance Groups that practices insurgent and terrorist operations. No question. The British Colonial Palestine Police and the Administration had a wanted poster for terrorism on every major Jewish Leader of the day.

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Yes that is internal Jewish Political end-fighting. And I find it best not to get not to jump in the middle of the pool until the official policy is in lay-out form. They have have their controversies as well.

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First, before we go any farther, please allow me to clarify. I did not say intend to convey this claim. I merely point-out that prior to the Palestinian Declaration of Independence, (Nov 1988 ) there was a period of time in which there was no sovereign authority, only the "effective control" established by Israel. There was no true Palestinian Government.

In 1993-1995, the Oslo Accords went into effect --- creating the Palestinian Authority; and Ares "A" - "B" - "C".

The Question is not whether of not Israel holds sovereignty; but whether of not the Palestinian can claim any sovereignty.

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Again you open with something I did not intent to be interpreted that way. Please let me clarify. . With the exception of the small areas that the Knesset approved, nothing else was annexed. Area "C" is all the consensual jurisdiction necessary for a defensible border and does not violate the Israeli-Jordanian Peace Treaty; specifically Article 3, International Boundary, and specifically Annex I (a)...

I don't think that anyone in Israel really want to be sovereign over the West Bank. It is an unproductive albatross (in every way) that will just degrade and drag down the commercial, economic and industrial gains Israel has made.

I believe that the HoAP use this "Belligerent Occupation" Argument to confuse the issues. Just so we are all on the same page.

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Yes, in some measure, I believe that the Quarantine of Gaza and the non-consensual Belligerent Occupation of the West Bank does do some harm. But then a "Belligerent Occupation" is in reality a from of IAC. An IAC, in the case of Israel vs HoAP, is one of low intensity. In any conflict, there will be economic loss.

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Yes I apologize. I totally misread the author's name. I had not heard of the "Norman" --- I guess I saw what I wanted to see. In any event I have no understanding of this author of which you speak. I'll have to get up to speed.

Most Respectfully and Very Many Thanks,
R

 

what the heck are you speaking of here. I speak of values. People who want to desecrate the bodies of people they politically dislike and who only want to defame them including bringing in this sort of thing

which I had never ever heard of before and who are claiming the West Bank is legally Israeli come over to me as extremely extremist - and it would not matter which people they were talking about. To be honest when I saw your second post here it seemed to me that you were wanting to take this off topic and start talking about all kinds of things I certainly am bored about. However knowing I knew a fair amount about the issues you raised I decided to answer. . However I never intended to continue. I am happy that my research is pretty accurate on the nuts and bolts of the things I said -....and when we get to this

Not for me RoccoR.
Perhaps someone else will want to join you or the thread may even go back on topic.

 

How much territory do you have in mind, because there isn't much left.

 

Do you have any fictitious visual aids showing the entire region?

 

Feeling defeated?

 

I suppose I would if I was defending terrorists, but the side I support is thriving, so, no. You are not the first to post that misleading, false map. If you feel victorious from copying and pasting that image, then I am happy for you. Here is your participation trophy and your therapy bear

 

She isn't lying to you. Israel has been gradually taking away the land that was to make the Palestinian state. A bigger map than Jazz gave at the link.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/mapstellstory.html

At Oslo the Palestinians agreed to recognise Israel and to accept only 22% of historical Palestine as their State,

Current talk is of Israel annexing 62% of the West Bank.and leaving the Palestinians in little isolated bantusatnas for ever - that is for ever with no state, for ever without the right of self determination, just living in a system of apartheid in Israel which is pretty much what the situation is now. It would just be making it official - which might cause problems.