I don't need religion to be a good person.

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by The Rhetoric of Life, Sep 3, 2017.

  1. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Ahh, yes.

    More to the point, unlike me, you can't find fault with your adversary's assertions, so you find fault with what he never said and declare victory.

    Why the hell should anyone care a straw for your opinion about a subjective quality?

    So do lefties who champion the causes of murderers, career welfare recipients and other assorted miscreants lack empathy? Is that why they're so confused about right and wrong?
     
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  2. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's all subjective. Religious people just like to pretend otherwise.
     
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  3. vanityofvanitys

    vanityofvanitys Well-Known Member

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    Except the existence of God and the resurrection of Christ are not subjective matters.

    Consequently, your judgments of what is “good” may be subjective, but God’s are not.
     
  4. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    They're confused because they believe in equality and not of freedom.
    They believe everyone should be subjugated the same because 'it's fair' and they hate free trade and want a command based economic system instead.
    They have no souls. :)
     
  5. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    People's people (and some people are Jerks)!
     
  6. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    The existence of your god and its kid are myths. There is no good reason to believe in any of that. Further, their existence actually has no bearing on whether a person is good or not; these are personal assessments we make according to selected criteria and our feelings on an emotional level.
     
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  7. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't mean to seem like a bad person, but honestly, by atheists culling their herd, I don't mind at all. GOD has this in his plan too.
     
  8. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would agree with you given my definition of what "religion is". Religion is mankind's effort to reach and satisfy God. Catholics attend Mass and say thousands of Hail Mary's. Some Protestants would say it is attending Church every Sunday. Charismatics would say it is "speaking in tongues". Secularists would say....well, I've never killed a anybody, I'm no Hitler. Well, everyone except One whoever walked this earth is not without mistakes. There was a thief on the cross dying next to Jesus that had lost his chance to do any of the things "good people " claim to do. All He did was believe on the provision God had made for him. That man made "Paradise"! I'm very confident of myself, but not through anything good I have ever done. It is because of what God did to reach me. I would say that because of that, I've done a few "good works".
    I'm going to add one thing. I don't believe you understand what "Holiness" is. Because of that, you set the bar far lower. Perhaps you compare yourself to others. Maybe you can be nice to your neighbors but cheat a little on taxes. That's not to bad ....huh?
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  9. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think many have trouble understanding what Holiness is about. They set their standards far lower. They compare themselves to what they see others doing. It just seems to get worse.
     
  10. ChrisL

    ChrisL Well-Known Member

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    I love the "holier than thou" tudes of the religious folks. Lol. Not really, it's one of the reasons why I really don't want anything to do with them! :)
     
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  11. vanityofvanitys

    vanityofvanitys Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, fine. Can't blame you I guess.

    Except you need to understand our claims of having evidence for our beliefs does not imply that any of us are claiming to be holy or holier than thou. Is that confusion of yours done on purpose?
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  12. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Atheists are like a herd of cats, whereas Christians already accurately characterize themselves as sheep. I mean, it's right in the Bible.

    But I'm curious what you mean about culling. Are atheists dying in a way somehow related to their lack of belief in mythological beings?
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  13. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Definitely not.

    Please, you have no idea.
     
  14. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Cats show no interest in GOD nor an afterlife. So perhaps you nailed it.

    Culling their herd means excluding themselves from GOD or the afterlife. Like taking a leak on the campfire you once found useful.
     
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  15. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am religious. Never have I posted in a fashion to seem holier than thou to any poster. I find those of my church to approach others in a most kind and thoughtful fashion without wagging our fingers at anybody and trying to run their lives. One thing I don't like about Democrats is they want to run my life and I felt a kindred spirit in your posts.
     
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  16. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Don't ever consider myself religious, far from it. It's not a matter of what we feel we have accomplished in any sort of way. The difference is what we aspire to.
     
  17. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    OR... morality is OBJECTIVE, & irreligious people just like to pretend otherwise. Since we are dealing with BELIEFS & OPINIONS about the nature of the universe, these are both 'religious' opinions. You have no hard evidence for your beliefs in amorality, it is just your subjective opinion, so the pretense can go both ways.

    Hmm... seems to me that arrogance & hypocrisy is not a unique trait of 'religious!' people, whoever they are. I find that atheists are equally arrogant, dogmatic, pretentious, & hypocritical. IOW, we are all human, & we are plagued with the same foibles as the rest of humanity.

    I see a phony caricature from many atheists, & especially those from the progressive left, who have been indoctrinated into that worldview:

    'Religious!' people are all hypocrites, holier-than-thou, want a theocracy, hate science, hate black people, are intolerant, want to ban books, & are secretly nazis.

    This is a pretty common theme, in any Christian Bash setting. I see it in this forum All.The.Time. But it is just a propaganda meme.. like the real nazis who tried to dehumanize the jews, so they could kill them. And since Christians have a long history of being killed for being Christians, & since that was predicted by our Founder, we tend to take these things seriously.

    If you really read history.. not just the revisionist crap from the left, you can see the influence.. POSITIVE influence that christianity has had on the world. Western Civilization, & all the trimmings has at its root, the basis of Christian Ideology, & which has shaped it in every way. Of course, the revisionists are constantly distorting actual history, to project something that fits within their phony narratives better, hence the current Christian Bash.

    Science? Human Equality? Reason? Abolitionism? Citizen govt? Pick your positives for humanity in western civilization, & you will find christian principles & influences at their root. From the reformation to the enlightenment, the age of reason, & the scientific revolution, it has been christians primarily, leading the way, & providing the foundation for the rest of the culture.

    So the absurd & ridiculous phony narrative that christians are all knowledge hating bigots, is just that: A phony propaganda meme. There is no basis in reality.

    And for every scoundrel that claims 'Christian!' as his principle, i can find dozens of others who claim something else. I find it very ironic, that the demographic that the left hates the most.. middle class white men.. are the majority of atheists. So while christiantiy has true diversity, & appeals beyond race, culture, or any specific demographic, it seems that atheism is mostly a privileged white male phenomena. And since they are the ones the most militant & vocal in the proselytizing for their beliefs, it also seems that they can only attract others like them. I also find it very interesting that it is mostly those affluent white males, who are generally products of the advanced academic system, & who continue to indoctrinate themselves with PBS & other propaganda outlets for the marxist/darwinist worldview, who are the least tolerant of other beliefs. They tend to be against the principles that America was founded upon:
    1. Human equality.
    2. Freedom of expression.
    3. Freedom of conscience.
    4. Natural Law.
    5. Morality.
    6. Any 'religious' expressions.
    Any & all of the abridgements of our rights, in the last few decades, has been the direct result, influence, & agenda of the atheistic/naturalistic left, as they seek to impose their worldview on everyone else, while demonizing the majority opposition: Christianity. That is why they see radical Islam as an ally.. anything that will destroy, demean, or take christianity down a notch, in the public eye, is a positive for their agenda.

    Anyway, i got too long.. again. It is somewhat of a burr under my saddle.. this phony narrative about 'christianity!' that the left is constantly pitching, so i can go on & on.. I should probably start a thread dedicated to this concept.. the roots of the virtues of western civilization being in christianity. And, since the marxist/darwinist left hates western civilization with such a passion, the correlation should be clear.
     
  18. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Empathy is there to foster family/clan/community bonding, mitigation of aggression, encouraging care and understanding which are NECESSARY social characteristic. It is as much a survival trait as flight/fight.

    Empathy, like love and every other emotion are physical in the sense that one can observe physical electrical activities in the brain related to them.

    As to making value judgements on sociopaths, its pretty damn easy given their behaviors and attitudes.
     
  19. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, I agree. But heaven help those tribes who were not monguls, right? What some religions did, or tried to do, was to extend what empathy produces within a clan, outside the clan. Surely this is one value of religion? Which served as a conduit for morality, outside a tribe, a clan. The golden rule was extended outside of ones tribe. Atheism did not do this.
     
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  20. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The golden rule had nothing to do with a specific religion. It can be found in virtually every society in history.

    Being an agnostic atheist does not mean I dont' comprehend the benefits that organized religion has had on human societies throughout history. It has been a very necessary and successful social control. It was particularly effective in societies with little or no justice system, in fighting wars for the economic benefit of the ruling classes, promoting xenophobia/protectionism/exclusion, not to mention puttin' the fear o' god's judgement upon death into the minds of men. Then there are the benefits that individuals derive from their faith and its "revealed" knowledge.


    And you are correct atheism doesn't do any of that.
     
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  21. tealwings

    tealwings Well-Known Member

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    Some individuals easily extend empathy regardless of their beliefs or non beliefs. However many only go outside their "clan" for reasons that benefit them self or their "members". Part of it is survival, part of it is because people are fearful.
    Sociopaths are extreme, delusional (religious or not) and arent included in the above.
     
  22. Hawkins

    Hawkins Active Member

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    In Christianity, God sets the standard which won't change. Our morality however changes along time. Today, a good person won't have a slave. However 300 years ago, a good man can have a slave. The same happens when nudity and homosexuality is measured against time. In 30s, a man watch nudity photos may not be considered good.

    In Christianity, one of the main reasons (we believe) that Christians cannot be good because Christians draw the focus of Satan and his angels. We are thus put to tests as Satan specially want us to sin. Satan doesn't have the same interest in those who are already kept captive. That's the theory.

    How good you are may depend on what environment you are put in. If you are left hungry all the times, you may choose to steal, rob or even kill. In another words, how good you can be may depend on what tests you are put into.

    That said. The Bible said that no one is good. Under the consent that you know that children are dying of hunger in Africa while you use your money to surf the net. It means that you'd rather use your money to surf the net while watching them die. How good are you? You can ....... give yourself some lame excuse for you to remain confident that you are good, while ....... Christians choose to repent all our sins we can be aware or unaware of. Now who is good?
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  23. pjohns

    pjohns Well-Known Member

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    That is certainly true.

    But whatever gave you the idea that good people are to be rewarded with heaven, whereas bad people shall be sent to the other place?

    Mere goodness (even true, serious goodness) is not even close to what the New Testament teaches as being the means of securing the former, while avoiding the latter.
     
  24. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    Well, who says there is anything to be said about the New Testament or the Old Testament when it comes down to not needing religion?
    Same applies to an afterlife, what afterlife? I'm talking about the guaranteed life of life that can be wasted if you allow a religion to dictate to you what you should do in the years you have on this Earth. Doctrine written by men to tie the masses up in bondage and submission - not for this guy. If you don't take The Holy Bible as evidence of Time Travel... Then we can't really communicate.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  25. pjohns

    pjohns Well-Known Member

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    Well, I was merely responding to your initial assertion, viz.: "I don't need religion to be a good person."

    I fully agree with that.

    Many good people are irreligious.

    Who ever claimed otherwise?
     

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