EU haven't moved in this negotiation with Britain

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by The Rhetoric of Life, Aug 31, 2017.

  1. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    11,186
    Likes Received:
    3,372
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Today, some harsh words, but why?
    Does the EU think these Brexit talks are going to work when only Britain is moving but the EU is still stuck in the same position it was. The EU hasn't budged in 'what it wants'. - Time to teach the EU how to negotiate.
    Britain is a country not fussed to go to W.T.O tariff with the EU, so really doesn't care if there is no agreement once we've left the EU.
    Why should Britain pay money the EU says it's owed?
    Britain owes £0.00 so, the EU are going to have to change what they want.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017
  2. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    25,530
    Likes Received:
    5,363
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They'll screw us for literally every penny they can get. With 'partners' like these, WTF needs enemies?
     
  3. Blücher

    Blücher Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Messages:
    479
    Likes Received:
    223
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    The EU has a clear position on how they will negotiate with the UK and there is no need to change it. First the divorce and then the new relationship. The UK has signed to pay for different cases and they have to pay otherwise it will be seen as a payment default by the international rating agencies and the British ratings will drop to Afghanistan level.

    The WTO rules are no real problem for either side but just look at the borders, air rights and supply chains. In times of just in time production nobody will have their trucks waiting for days in Calais.

    In 2019 there will be still a EU common market and not being member of it and don't having a functional agreement is a UK problem.
     
  4. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    11,186
    Likes Received:
    3,372
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Since the EU seem to be 'non negotiable' in these negotiations, good luck getting a penny from Britain.
     
  5. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    11,186
    Likes Received:
    3,372
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If the EU says it's a bill, that only the EU say exists, good luck saying Britain defaulted on something Britain doesn't owe.
    It's like saying France owes Britain, and Britain coming up with a bill, and France saying it doesn't owe Britain so doesn't pay.
    The EU says Britain owes the EU, but there is no bill in which Britain will default on since Britain has no bill.
    Credit ratings only drop through non payment, but when you owe £0.00, it's stupid to assume it's going to affect UK credit rating when there is no debt or money out standing.
     
  6. Blücher

    Blücher Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Messages:
    479
    Likes Received:
    223
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    UK will pay for sure otherwise they will have to pay high interest rates for their 1,8 trillion debt and that will be much more expensive.
     
  7. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    11,186
    Likes Received:
    3,372
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  8. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    11,186
    Likes Received:
    3,372
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't understand when you say Britain'll pay.
    Pay why? The EU have to change their tone otherwise there is no negotiation.
     
  9. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    11,186
    Likes Received:
    3,372
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Britain is going to be a non EU country, deal with it. WTO tariff, bring it on.
    But you're deluded to think it's an issue for non payment for credit ratings.
    You could either work with us to make a deal, or not.
     
  10. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    11,186
    Likes Received:
    3,372
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    People who don't recognise a debt, don't have to oblige. No credit ratings under threat.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  11. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    11,186
    Likes Received:
    3,372
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The British Tax Payer is unsympathetic to EU expansion and has long suspected that the UK is paying for the EU.
    So there aren't any moral objections to puling out of EU.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  12. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    Messages:
    17,608
    Likes Received:
    2,043
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Cut the cord and be done with the EU. It is the only real way. Take the economic hit and start building back from there. Better than a protracted bleeding dry.
     
    cerberus likes this.
  13. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    11,186
    Likes Received:
    3,372
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It's not like 27 other nations depend on British money for their plans... Is it?
    Because if it is, good riddance to the idea of still having to pay once we've left if 27 countries can't pay or won't pay.
    As for the EU holding this against Britain, Britain has every right to hold this against the EU for the recklessness of no real exit plan if Article 50 ever gets triggered. Perhaps telling such countries like Ukraine 'No' 'We (The EU) can't afford it anymore' is the price for Brexit?
    Automatically assuming they can have Britain's contributions is unheard if there is no access to the market.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  14. Blücher

    Blücher Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Messages:
    479
    Likes Received:
    223
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    You will have access but will not be a member of the common market, like Nigeria. The British 15% of the EU budget will be compensated in either way but you will have to pay for certain issues, just be sure about it.
     
  15. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    9,641
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The EU owes the UK more than the UK owes the EU.

    Britain will pay, if the EU offers something of greater value to us than the money they are asking for it in return.
    We had a little vote, decided between us that it didn't and that we should no longer pay for this.

    So that's that.
    There are no negotiations. They took place before we voted.

    Now what we have is theatre with the Palaces of Westminster and Brussels trying to catch up with what just happened.
    The deal is over. No new deal is on offer.

    Deals with the EU are bad.
    We don't have to pay for anything. Bad deals are not a requirement in the UK.

    Our credit rating is excellent. The EU are not our creditors. We are theirs.
    Our credit rating with them is irrelevant, theirs with ours.... seems to be something of a sore spot for them right now.
    They have resorted to begging.

    No more credit here EU. Now you pay or go without.

    Provide something of value to me, and I will consider paying you for it.
    There will be no more package deals with you guys however. Our politicians prefer to be alive.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  16. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    25,530
    Likes Received:
    5,363
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They'll screw every last penny out of us in vindictive retribution for leaving. The EU bureaucratic and political classes have always hated us and always will. 'Our European partners' - what a joke, and how they must have laughed behind our backs every time we've uttered it over recent years. With our obsessive goody-two-shoes demeanor we've been putty in their hands all this time.

    "Britain has given half a trillion pounds to EU since 1973"

    Yep, they're sure gonna miss us . . . what suckers we are!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-half-a-trillion-pounds-to-EU-since-1973.html
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  17. Blücher

    Blücher Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Messages:
    479
    Likes Received:
    223
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
  18. JohnConstantine

    JohnConstantine Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2012
    Messages:
    939
    Likes Received:
    100
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Baff likes this.
  19. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    9,641
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    /agree.

    Anything up to and including World War to prevent that.
    Some people never learn.

    Live in peace with us. We are friendly and we are kind.
    Live free of us. Accept our money, and we own you.

    People who read the guardian are going to be worried about the end of the EU because all that EU wasteful money was being spent on them.
    It will be a disaster for their economy.

    But their economy is not my economy. Their economy is parasitic on my economy. I cry not for their loss.

    The carrot of EU wealth, does not work on me. I never got any of it.
    I make my money elsewhere.

    So your carrot is lame and your stick is not as big as mine. That is the negotiating position of the EU.

    They don't have one.
    It's one giant sized bluff.
    If they go through with their threats then the UK's trade partners have to leave the EU to trade with us.
    Which means Ireland and Belgium leave the EU.

    And we get the language of the EU being English, lol.
    And the capital moving to Strasbourg. LMAO.

    So this is the part where the EU starts throwing it's weigh around only to find it hasn't got any.

    If they weren't so pathetic you'd have to kill them.


    So this is the theatre.
    The EU demands reparations.
    The UK dramatically stands up for it's people and refuses to pay. How valiant!
    How democratic!

    The EU gets let off it's debt. Doesn't have to pay reparations.

    And then life goes on exactly as before. And everyone in the EU knows the UK has been taught a valuable lesson and everyone in the UK knows the EU has been taught a valuable lesson.

    And nothing much changes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  20. Blücher

    Blücher Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Messages:
    479
    Likes Received:
    223
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    From the beginning the EU has a clear position, agreed by all 27 countries and you think it's a bluff. You will wake up with a low pair in your hands after going all-in.

    In 2019 there will be a common market for 27 EU countries and not much will change for them but the UK will have a bad hangover if they don't get their relationship to the EU settled.

    There are good reasons why non EU countries like Switzerland and Norway pay a lot of money to the EU to be part of the common market and other EU institutions.
     
  21. JohnConstantine

    JohnConstantine Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2012
    Messages:
    939
    Likes Received:
    100
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Don't think so dude. I mean if it had a 'clear position from the beginning' then presumably it wouldn't have changed much in its function since the 50's.

    Or maybe the position is clear, I mean from the outset the general goal has been to undermine the nation state, and to shift loyalties to a new political centre, creating a new political community 'superimposed over pre-existing ones'. Free movement and the fact that EU law trumps domestic law is all part of that. National identity is to be diminished, we will see ourselves as Europeans as opposed to any particular nation in Europe, there will be a European government, bank, army and so on and individual parliaments as we know it are to pale into insignificance.

    Why is that a problem? Nationalism of the 20th century and the destruction it caused demands it! -- we're stronger together!

    For me I'm just a little bit sceptical of the motives of those who wish to wield this kind of power. I see that every state that can push people around, does. Why would we think that the answer to peace is to have more powerful states around when there is rarely a war in history which isn't started or inflamed exponentially by a large and powerful state?

    The position seems to be: Nation states are violent, therefore we need a superstate to arrest the power of individual states. Because the Soviet Union and the USA have been such a force for peace?

    I'd rather say this: Nation states are violent, therefore tax should not be permitted :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
    Baff likes this.
  22. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    9,641
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There are even better reasons why America and Japan do not.
    Why in fact almost every country on the planet, does not.

    There will be a common market for 27 nations, but 2 of those 27, Ireland and Belgium, do more trade with the UK than they do with the rest of the EU combined.
    So they don't really need to pay the EU anymore either. They can just pay us.
    If you wish to **** up their economies, go for it. I will laugh.

    From the beginning the EU has had the clear position to rip off the UK. To destroy it and to subjugate it's people.
    And the UK position is also quite clear. **** off EU. No more deals with you.

    No politician has the mandate to make deals with the EU.
    Carry on EU.

    And yes, the EU, a bluff. We will pay you 100 billion pounds or.... or nothing.
    Or the EU will do nothing. Because there is nothing it can do.
    Nothing at all.

    Can't threaten us with a credit rating downgrade, because it isn't one of our creditors.
    Can't threaten us with military action, because it has no military.
    Can't sue us, because we are acting legally.

    It won't give us a trade deal?
    The EU has no choice here. We won't accept a trade deal with the EU.
    It can't give us a trade deal because we won't accept one.

    The EU court will have primacy over UK courts. No, it won't.
    Your position can be as clear as you like. No one really cares. It's irrelevant.
    Not in the EU. The EU is none of my business.
    Carry on EU. Talk amongst yourselves.

    Norway and Switzerland may pay you tribute, you may pay us tribute.
    We will not pay you tribute.

    You don't rule here and if you piss us about, you won't rule anywhere. We will just bomb you into the stone age.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
    Latherty likes this.
  23. Blücher

    Blücher Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Messages:
    479
    Likes Received:
    223
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    The clear position was referred to the negotiation of the Brexit but it's also true for the plans for Europe. The Treaty of Rome (1957) determined the way the EU took and you can find there all aspects of todays EU.

    As a German I look at our neighbours and can summarize that we don't have any significant disputes with them, like minorities rights or border disputes, questions which provoked a lot of wars in the past. Something new has evolved out of the blood-soaked European ground. The EU is far from being perfect but when I look around in the world it's unique in its positive way of forming the future.
     
  24. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,989
    Likes Received:
    489
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Yes, because they are net exporters to the EU. We are net importers. EU will suffer more than UK from a non-deal. But it would be spread more widely.
     
  25. Blücher

    Blücher Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Messages:
    479
    Likes Received:
    223
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Both sides will suffer, that's for sure but I doubt that a non deal will not harm the UK service industry severe and that's the industry which earns UK's money.
     

Share This Page