Pension costs ‘crowding out’ spending on parks, schools and social services, report says

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Professor Peabody, Oct 7, 2017.

  1. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There really is only one solution. The need to come up with a formulary and convert all the pensions in California to 401(k)'s. Give them MediCal (Medicaid) for their health care. They should have known that the system was unsustainable. Public Sector Unions should be barred form making political donations to the same city, county or state folks that negotiate their contracts. That is exactly how we got into this mess in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
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  2. straight ahead

    straight ahead Well-Known Member

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    This is nothing new and not just for California. Most states are choked with municipal workers' unfunded pension debt and the bluer the state the worse it is. The worst offenders are naturally teachers. The UFT screeches how they make no money but NYC tier 1 pensioners get six figure pensions for 30+ years after retiring in their 50's.
     
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  3. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree that pensions should be replaced with pay as you go 401K's but the solution is to fire older workers short of the eligibility and force them to cash out early in a lump sum to make it to social security.
     
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  4. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Not allowing government workers to retire before age 65 would help reduce costs.

    Putting them out to pasture after only 20 years is really stupid
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
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  5. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    This needs to be nationwide including federal employees. When people get to vote their own pensions and benefits this is what happens. FDR, LaGuardia, Meany all warned abiut public sector labor unions.
     
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  6. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Agreed. California's pension problem was a complete scam by the unions and the legislators they continue to own. Other cities and states across the country followed California's lead.

    Here is some history: (There is a paywall, but the first sentence says it all)

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703315404575250822189252384

    In 1999 then California Governor Gray Davis signed into law a bill that represented the largest issuance of non-voter-approved debt in the state's history. The bill SB 400 granted billions of dollars in retroactive pension boosts to state employees, allowing retirements as young as age 50 with lifetime pensions of up to 90% of final year salaries. The California Public Employees' Retirement System sold the pension boost to the state legislature by promising that "no increase over current employer contributions is needed for these benefit improvements" and that Calpers would "remain fully funded."...
    Here is another:


    http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-pension-crisis-davis-deal/

    Proponents sold the measure in 1999 with the promise that it would impose no new costs on California taxpayers. The state employees’ pension fund, they said, would grow fast enough to pay the bill in full.

    They were off — by billions of dollars — and taxpayers will bear the consequences for decades to come.

    This year, state employee pensions will cost taxpayers $5.4 billion, according to the Department of Finance. That’s more than the state will spend on environmental protection, fighting wildfires and the emergency response to the drought combined.
    And to think, Progressives hope to rule the United States one day......
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
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  7. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    OPEB is a looming problem for governments across the United States.
     
  8. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    I would be very, very careful about who gets to put together the "formulary", or an even worse problem can easily be created.

    In a greater sense, though, there is more than one 'solution', Professor... and this is one that applies to every kind of disbursement to citizens from every government, federal and state: Pay people what they have EARNED, and cut payments of all kinds to those who are getting UNEARNED money and services.

    That's it. That's all. If a person who, by the rules and regulations, has EARNED a pension or anything else from any government, that person must be paid according to those rules! But, there is no reason why the government (ANY government) should go on shoveling out UNEARNED money to people unless there is an rock-solid reason why they qualify to receive it.

    If we get all the slugs, moochers, and bums off of UNEARNED welfare, and we overhaul the U. S. Tax Code to get rid of all loopholes, shelters, exemptions, exclusions, and "write-off's", we would finally establish fairness and sanity in our economy....

    That's the hard line -- EARNED versus UNEARNED. It doesn't have to be a mystery....
     
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  9. sawyer

    sawyer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Government both state and local is GM ( generous mother) on a scale that's off the charts and like GM will go broke because of it. Unlike GM there's nobody to bail us out and these pension funds are going to have to be drastically reduced. Sorry government workers but your cushy retirement is going to have to come down to earth with the rest of us.
     
  10. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Or would it drive up costs by allowing them to contribute even more and be entitled to even more? I don't disagree but it isn't confined to government workers. My brother will be able to retire at 55 if he so desires thanks to his union contract.
     
  11. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Private companies and unions can do as they please since it is their money

    But government workers should have to stay on the job till they are 65

    Many people retire young enough to take a second government job and retire twice by 65
     
  12. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think the problem is folks seek a noble job that they really want to do like teaching knowing how much they will make over a life time. Then when they realize they're not going to be taking cruises around the world 4 times a year when they retire, they naturally want to make enough to do that but it's not going to happen. By then they are usually to far into the career to make a change and start again.
     
  13. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree, back in the late 1980's that's what happened to most private pensions.
     
  14. Guess Who

    Guess Who Well-Known Member

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    Anyone have any idea how much union and federal workers get in retirement? Waaayyyyyyy too much.
     
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  15. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Government needs to hire an audit firm and go back through all the living pensioners last 10 years of salary. So many worked tons of overtime in their last 2 or three years and used banked bonuses to bump up their pensions like this Nurse. That would be the first temporary fix would be to correct the pensions of those that gamed the system.

    Nurse who got $630,000 in OT tripled pension

    I think if they just based their pension on their base salary and correct the ones not in line it would go a long way to stabilizing the system then they could offer 401(k)'s to all new hires.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
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  16. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So we should have a military full of 64 year old E-6's?
     
  17. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    I make an exception for regular uniformed servicemembers

    Though some choose to stay 30 or 40 years if they are good enough

    But not a pencil pusher in the DHHS or the IRS

    And certainly not for congressmen in washington

    They should get no pension at all
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
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  18. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So service members can double dip but nobody else. Why is that?

    I agree that congressional member pensions are outrageous but some of the pencil pushers can be vulnerable if they cannot draw until 65. For example, I know a woman who had worked for every local congressman forever--democrat, republican, independent while switching parties. She got curbed by a newly elected ultimately one term congressman who replaced all these experienced district pencil pushers with his co-ed campaign bunnies. There aren't a ton of federal jobs in our area and she couldn't find one, so the ability to draw early to get her to social security is the only thing that kept her out of the poor house.
     
  19. Chuck711

    Chuck711 Well-Known Member

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    Pensions are negotiated contracts between worker and employee.

    To attempt to shaft the worker after a Lifetime of work is just wrong!

    Mostly generous pensions are a trade off to keep workers in unfulfilled jobs.

    Imagine working at Social Security for 30 years under a litany of workplace rules.

    Without a pot of gold at the end of the tunnel who would stay.................
     
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  20. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Unfulfilled jobs? What is that?

    In the case of California, CALPERS, the Public Employee Unions, and the liberal/socialist progressive legislators they own shafted the citizens of California.

    Do you think those citizens should be shafted?
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
  21. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Because of the extraordinary service we ask them to give to the country

    Including their lives if necessary

    I cant comment of the woman in your examole because I dont know the particulars
     
  22. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Woman I know just retired from the AF spent her entire career in medical records. What was her extraordinary, life risking service again?
     
  23. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    In the military everyone is expected to give their life if necessary

    Even a personel records clerk

    I'm not going to denigrate the contribution of some military people for the sake of winning a debate point on the internet
     
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  24. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    That was once the case.

    At the beginning of my career, the idea of working for government meant you took a modest salary in return for job security and a decent retirment.

    But over the years, the modest salary part has mushroomed, particularly in middle to high level positions in both state and Federal governments.

    Also, the retreat in employee benefits that have plagued the private sector for four decades has not taken place in the public one.

    Today many government employees have benefits that haven't existed in the private sector at all since the 1970's. Things like total family health care insurance with no deductibles or co pays. Retirement benefits are generous (including the continuation of said insurance often), and the benefits continue to be paid even if the retiree takes another lucrative job (unlike social security).
     
  25. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    I have some very troubling news for you Tom

    We agree for once
     

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