Burden of proof (philosophy)

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Kokomojojo, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Many deists wouldn’t say they have a god, which highlights one of the many elements beyond your simple binary while polytheists will believe in multiple gods (though many of those beings might not be what you’d recognise as a god). I’m not saying the different varieties are not apples but I am saying that the differences between the varieties matter too (have you ever bitten in to a cooking apple?).

    That’s the point. You might even say that it would be impossible to prove there are no oranges, certainly so much more difficult that proving the existence of the apple. Hence the burden of proof for each assertion shouldn’t be considered exactly the same.
     
  2. William Rea

    William Rea Well-Known Member

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    Really, you are trapping me with something I agree with?
     
  3. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You can prove a negative with inductive logic, the problem is that because inductive logic does not prove it incontrovertibly it is no use against a believer in gods, bigfoot, aliens. The author of the article explains this in his text. I guess this is why so many atheists say you can 99.9% prove god does not exist, but it does not matter since unless you can get that last 0.1% proof, theists will say god exists!
     
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  4. Beer w/Straw

    Beer w/Straw Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  5. William Rea

    William Rea Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.
     
  6. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    You still don't get the difference between strong atheism and atheism in general. Strong atheists make that claim, and they indeed have a burden of proof. Not all atheists are strong atheists. Many, most actually, are agnostic atheists. They do not claim to know. The don't believe.
     
  7. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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  8. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Koko said

    " but atheists argue religion only pertains to theists therefore by the relation back rule they are acknowledging the existence of God, since in their arguments on this board one would be forced to conclude religion only applies to God based theism. After all atheists claim t have no religion. Which way do you want it?"

    That doesn't make any sense. Are you perhaps confusing spirituality with religion?
     
  9. William Rea

    William Rea Well-Known Member

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    No, no, no, no.

    All the atheists here will stay behind after the school bell until they agree with Koko.
     
  10. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Thats as far out as saying they are theistic atheists. may as well say they are fruit punch. or they went left right
     
  11. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    yeh I consider it a community service
     
  12. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    thats right nothing is of any use for a disbeliever, either inductive or deductive.

    the whole point of the article is that it is 100% possible to prove a 99.99999% of all negatives, but its very inconvenient to do so nothing more. Atheists fail time and time again to prove dieties do not exist and hold their disbeliefs on FAITH alone.

    as we clearly seen on the previous page atheist pat each other on the back for denying reasoned well understood philosophical methods, even when the correct answers are given to them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  13. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    Wrong.

    As you keep ignoring you are willfully ignoring logic an reason and every philosophical position on burden of proof.

    You always do this and always get crushed and defeated no matter how many new threads you start repeating the same proven false hoods.

    The burden of proof is on theists always and exclusively as they are stating a positive assertion while atheists are stating the opposite.

    Ironically the sources you quote prove this but you are too immature to admit this.You lack comprehension of logic and reasonable thought no matter how much you stamp and scream like a child to the contrary
     
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  14. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    its irrational to agree with something and disagree with it at the same time. He gave the everyone the take away point and the board atheists come away with the wrong answer, even when the author give them the correct answer and take away point.
     
  15. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    That tesla interview rocked didnt it :) makes einstein look like a dope.
     
  16. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    No, that's as far out as saying there are also agnostic theists. Which there are. Knowledge and belief aren't the same thing. You can claim to know and believe or claim to know and disbelieve. You can claim to not know and believe or not know and disbelieve. You can also not know and not believe either way. Again, you need to make up your mind here. Where am I losing you?
     
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  17. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    its patently absurd and delusional for anyone to claim they are without knowledge and with knowledge at the same time which these people are doing when they claim to be both agnostic (without knowledge) and atheist (with knowledge (of insufficient evidence) or the same for theists, at the same time.

    Again this is blatant denial.
     
  18. Beer w/Straw

    Beer w/Straw Well-Known Member

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    If the interview were true it makes Tesla look like he was smoking dope.
     
  19. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    no one understood his work at the time either, but here we are with a grid that is his design still in operation today.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  20. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    No one is claiming that.

    Wrong again. You still fail to grasp the difference between knowledge and belief. An agnostic theist does not KNOW whether or not God exists, but he BELIEVES that God exists. That's most theists.

    Do you claim to know for a fact that God exists?

    Again, this is a basic refusal to so much as familiarize yourself with the terms in question.
     
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  21. Empress

    Empress Well-Known Member

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    Contradictory term.

    atheist (āˈthē-ĭst)
    • One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.
    agnostic (ăg-nŏsˈtĭk)
    • One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
    • One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
    • One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.
     
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  22. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    Seems pretty simple, to me. That is how those who carry such labels have defined their beliefs, for as long as i can remember. The current redefining of the terms seems to be more orwellian in nature, rather than descriptive. The attempt is to obscure the terms, rather than clarify them.
     
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  23. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    in a word delusional.

    they want to wear badge and escape philosophical reprisal, its an attempt at hedging their position and shows lack of continuity.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  24. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Odd that you didn't include a source. And don't say the dictionary because there is no such thing as THE dictionary. You are quoting A dictionary and failed to cite which one. You also appear to be unfamiliar with how dictionaries work. You see those bullets (normally numbers)? Those aren't a list of requirements that must be met. They are a series of possible definitions. You only have to meet one of those bullets to be what this dictionary defines as an agnostic, not all three. Keeping those things in mind, the first and second definition of agnostic here are compatible with the definition provided of atheist. Only the second bullet is contradictory. Your argument, even setting aside the fact that you want to cherry-pick your favorite dictionary and treat it as authoritative, fails.
     
  25. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    First, see previous post for failure to comprehend dictionaries. Second, I can only assume your exposure to self-identified atheists has been extremely limited. For as long as I can remember, atheists have defined themselves as a-theists, not-theists, which would include agnostics who do not believe in God.
     

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