The Capitalist System Is Decaying Because Of Its Own Contradictions

Socialism is what the pilgrims first tried their first year--everyone worked and put into a collective pot and at the end of the year, the pot was divided to those whose need was greatest. The only problem was that there was nothing in the pot and they darn neared starved to death. Next year, new rule, you produce it, its yours to do with as you wish. That winter they had the first thanksgiving. Didn't have anything to do within Indian corn, hand everything to do with capitalism and self worth.

Ayn Rand: "The essential characteristic of socialism is the denial of individual property rights; under socialism, the right to property (which is the right of use and disposal) is vested in “society as a whole,” i.e., in the collective, with production and distribution controlled by the state, i.e., by the government.

Socialism may be established by force, as in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics—or by vote, as in Nazi (National Socialist) Germany. The degree of socialization may be total, as in Russia—or partial, as in England. Theoretically, the differences are superficial; practically, they are only a matter of time. The basic principle, in all cases, is the same.

The alleged goals of socialism were: the abolition of poverty, the achievement of general prosperity, progress, peace and human brotherhood. The results have been a terrifying failure—terrifying, that is, if one’s motive is men’s welfare.

Instead of prosperity, socialism has brought economic paralysis and/or collapse to every country that tried it. The degree of socialization has been the degree of disaster. The consequences have varied accordingly."--http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/socialism.html

Yaron Brook The Evil of Socialism:
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What socialism does:

 

I meant the people who claim that they are leftists - the libcommies.

That's exactly how the IMF and the WB work anyways: they lend money to the poor countries, the corrupt politicians in those countries are stealing all those money, and then they send the money back in to the West - in the Western banks. In return for the favor, they reduce the incomes of their populations, as the IMF/WB are requesting them. Then the IMF/WB will use the same money again, over and over, in order to create artificial debts for those countries and to keep their population in deeper and deeper misery.

Newly or not, only an insane person can deposit/lend such amounts of money to the same criminal bankers who looted the money of their own depositors.

If you talk about true leftists, then yes, the libcommies are not leftists. But I was talking about the majority of the American people who think they are are leftists.

If you care then start building your own communities and grow them. It's a free country. You can replicate the success of the Amish and of the Mennonites. Free of their religious dogma, you can be 100 times more efficient than them. Once the public will see that you are actually building solutions instead of trying to climb into power, they will be attracted by your system and they will participate. It will have a snowball and avalanche effect, attracting a lot of people in a very short while - like for example Wikipedia did.
The people are attracted by the things that actually works and the attraction quickly generates involvement that easily become addictive.

No, but he really enjoys to suggest that he is. He likes that label very much.

I'm not going to argue anymore on this topic, you clearly refuse to look at the most basic evidence. All the countries, all the systems had big problems and they even collapsed when the corruption increased. Socialist communist or anarchist communities/countries are not spared from the same problem. The Scandinavian countries are going well, even though they have a mix of capitalism and socialism.
I can't waste my time repeating the same arguments forever, so I'll just say that we completely disagree here.

Then why the Scandinavian countries work so well?

No, the Amish and the Mennonites managed to build their own egalitarian, communist-like communities, step by step, without the use of force or violence. This is not a fantasy, but it's the very palpable reality.
The leftists like you can do exactly the same. It's a free country and they are wasting a great opportunity. Their unwilling to do so proves beyond any doubt that they prefer to believe in miraculous solutions instead of doing something credible.

 

You are outnumbered by people who are well educated in economics and in Marxism. You claim "oxymoron" but never explained how/why. Socialism is all about and ONLY about liberation of the working class according to everyone who advocates Marxism including Marx himself. The USSR didn't liberate workers. It wasn't socialism. It is only defined as socialism by anti-socialists.

 

Pakistan is very very poor ($200 per capita per year on health care) and not really capitalist so horrible comparison to USA, obviously. Among modern industrial countries USA has least generous welfare system and highest wealth( people have to work!!) which is why we dominate the world like no county in human history. Ever heard of East/West Germany?? Cuba/Florida??

 

Can't be both....

Think about it.

That's obvious propaganda shyte. DICTIONARIES say what socialism is about, not brain-dead Marxist ditto-heads.

True. Neither has any other socialist experiment.

It sure as hell was, by the dictionary definition.

LOL!

 

What people think is irrelevant. Stupid people think trump is a conservative. Ignorant anti-communist, anti-socialist people who are completely pro-capitalism think Russia is or was socialist. Facts are facts. And anyone who doesn't know factually how to determine whether a person is a leftist or a "commie" or a conservative or a centrist is ignorant of the facts. Claiming that what a person thinks indicates what he is, is a demonstration of ignorance of the facts.

 

It is indisputably capitalist. Its government just declines to rescue its people from capitalism.

The US government intervenes massively to rescue its people from capitalism, true.

Wrong on both counts.
<blather mercifully snipped>

 

Marx analyzed capitalist economics. Investigate Richard Wolff. He got his BA in economics from Harvard, his Masters in economics from Stanford, and his Doctorate in economics from Yale. And he is a leading Marxist. And all you can do now is spin it.

 

He fabricated silly nonsense.

I have. He's a Marxist know-nothing.

False. You didn't even check his Wikipedia entry.

Which is sorta like being a leading Mormon.

<yawn>

 

Basic bobbins! Socialism is worker ownership and control, by definition. Why play pretend?

 

capitalism is when you are free of govt to conduct a peaceful business based on voluntary transactions
among free people. Pakistan is one of the hardest places in the world to do business according to world bank.
Ever heard of Cuba/Florida? Can the liberal guess which has made boats illegal?? Do you know why boats are illegal?

 

when workers have control they own or in effect own so it is same thing. Statism is statism and opposite of freedom and capitalism! Do you understand

 

In 2004, U.S. medical R&D spending represented 57 percent of the global total. And, American Republicans just freed 1 billion souls from communism in China and created 60% of all the world's new medical care. We are like Gods thanks to Republican capitalism.Does anyone in their right mind think Sanders will make America even better by making it more like the USSR??

 

Poor management in a specific socialist community can't prove that socialism doesn't work. Do you want examples of capitalist systems that do not work? The vast majority of the capitalist countries have catastrophic economies.
Egalitarian communities are a reality. If you don't believe it then check the Amish - Mennonites - Anabaptist communities.

Socialism is hell in Venezuela? Then how about the capitalism in India? Or in Bangladesh? Or in Laos? Or in Cambodia? Or in Sudan? Or in Kenya? Or in Zimbabwe?
.. or in Venezuela?

 

Yup, all you did was spin it. Wolff a "know-nothing"?? Obviously he is way ahead of you on the brains and education.

From Wiki: "Wolff earned a BA magna cum laude in history from Harvard in 1963 and moved on to Stanford—he attained a MA in economics in 1964—to study with Paul A. Baran. Baran died prematurely from a heart attack in 1964 and Wolff transferred to Yale University, where he received a MA in economics in 1966, MA in history in 1967, and a PhD in economics in 1969."

So his BA was actually in history, which is very a good choice for a Marxist. But he got a MA and PHD in economics. So the BA doesn't mean he is a lesser economist. Your problem is your knee-jerk need to discredit me through him while ignoring his qualifications that I listed.

Spinning in order to discredit is pathetic and is evidence of truly "knowing-nothing".

 

That's why the leftists support outsourcing of the jobs into China? That's why they refuse to stop legalizing tax fraud and lobbying? That's why they provide a safe heaven to the mass murderers, drug lords, organized crime leaders and corrupt politicians from all over the world? That's why they allow the speculation in the housing, education and health care sectors, driving them out of reach for the workers? That's why they want to bring in tens of millions of immigrants who won't be able to find jobs? That's why they want to increase the taxes for the workers in order to support those immigrants? That's why they support the artificial conflict with Russia and the increase of military spending? That's why they support the increase of the public debt and dragging the workers in deeper misery in order to pay that public debt? That's why they are happy to give the 4 trillion Quantitative Easing money to the same criminal bankers who looted the money of the depositors before the Economic Crisis v.2008 ?

.. because they are such decent people?

 

You confuse the left with the right.

 

It appears that you haven't comprehended the last chapter 9 on the pharma industry:

 

The huge public debt is the biggest proof you can get.
Other than that, check this post: http://www.politicalforum.com/index...contradictions.203432/page-44#post-1068244927
Most of the problems listed there are created by the Republicans too

By mindlessly repeating an anti-welfare slogan to prove wrong a person who is against welfare?
And by repeating your mantra with 42% taxes paid by the rich who are actually making 80% of the economy?
Next time when you do that I'll report you for trolling.

The vast majority of the companies that employ people in the third world countries.
Check for more examples in this post - http://www.politicalforum.com/index...e-economy-works.515342/page-3#post-1068249806
The rich people are getting rich by overpricing the goods they are selling. Once they make more than an average wage, that means they overprice the products they are selling. I think I told you this some 20 times before but you still pretend you don't get it. Trolling much?
All the people you named are sucking the blood of the consumers and also of the taxpayers when they get contracts to deliver goods to the government. At least, they should pay bigger wages, instead of keeping all that much for themselves. So tax them and then return the money to the public they are stealing from (workers, consumers and taxpayers)

Thanks you so much for insulting me and my co-workers. You would happily dance on our graves too, isn't it?
Those people prefer to maintain their jobs because of the volatility of the jobs today and because of the highly unstable economy. The immigrants don't have all the safety nets the Westerners have. There is no point in finding another job that only lasts for three months.

Say thanks to all the politicians who exported the jobs in East Asia and to the worker unions that support them, to the politicians who legalize tax fraud and lobbying, who allow speculation who increase the public debt, who create artificial conflicts (e.g. Russia), to spend the taxpayer money on unnecessary military spending, who invest in "developing" a super-expensive and unworkable public infrastructure.
In other words, say thank you to the politicians who are working very hard to ruin the economy, to increase the insecurity, the volatility of the jobs and who make it so hard to find a stable job and to have security, especially for the immigrants.

So you think the thieves should not return the money they are stealing because you can always blame the victim.
Quite a criminal mindset, isn't it?

Those $ 200K 300K 400k etc jobs are not available to everyone. The economy needs a variety of jobs, including janitors, farm workers, drivers, shop attendants, guardians etc - these are the people getting the lowest wages. You are actually insulting the people who are necessary for the economy, by telling them that they are dumb, because they are not overpricing the goods and services they provide. Actually, you are telling to the people "You are not a thief, therefore you are stupid".
Quite a criminal mindset, isn't it?

This is insanely comical.
- That spending is helping the nutrition "scientists" to spread lies and to skew the dietary guidelines for five decades.
- The "scientists" refuse to investigate raw food, even though that's the most basic diet possible - all the animals eat raw and they are not plagued by the epidemics the humans are. There are plenty of accounts of people reversing incurable affections using raw food. On top of that, all the existing research on raw food has extremely positive results.
- The nutritionists are encouraging the public to eat unhealthy food to increase the sales of the food processing industry. Then the people get sick and then the doctors tell them to take pills in order to increase the sales of the Pharmaceutical industry.
- As a result the american public is plagued by epidemics like Heart disease. Type 2 diabetes. High blood pressure. High cholesterol levels. Stroke etc.
It's quite hard to imagine a more idiotic way to spend the money on R&D (including the taxpayer money spent on R&D), isn't it?
Because only cretins can spend R&D money by giving it to the charlatans who pretend to make scientific research and who actually act against the advancement of science.

Hallelujah!
Driving the poor souls into heavy health problems, maintaining them sick and then selling them pills to fill the pockets of the pharmaceutical industry.
It's very hard to invent a more idiotic medical system than this, isn't it?

So you feel good and more than ready to insult some people who are making low wages, isn't it?

Just another happy insult towards the people who are making low wages because "they are not good enough, so they don't deserve a decent life".
This is a plain slave-owner mindset: blaming the slaves for their misery.

It's the criminal system that allows the exploitation of those workers who make way less than 100k. It's the criminal system that allows the speculation and anti-competitive practices that are the source of the income inequality. It's the criminal system that allows the overpricing of goods, so they are out of reach for the people who make less than $ 100k

You talk exactly like a promoter of a Ponzi scheme, who are trying to convince their potential victims that such a crookery can work for everyone.
Or like a criminal who, after shooting someone, he blames the victim for being dumb because they didn't dodge the bullet.

 

Myopic Bullshat from someone who cannot see the BigPicture beyond his/her four walls.

Trade enhances business on all major fronts, creating jobs abroad in manufacturing which allows workers to buy American wheat. That's just a simplistic example.

But it shows in a large context - and I can give you hundreds of examples of the large contexts in terms of "services trades" with the US - is that Total American Employment is hurt if trade-barriers are increased.

The Information Age is with us, and American jobs in manufacturing have already been lowered to just 12% of the total workforce, where it will likely stabilize. Most of those lost-jobs have simply been replaced by automation, which makes the products cheap-enough for Americans to buy. Otherwise they would not.

The trend-line in total jobs is nothing new. Herebelow, from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, for Manufacturing:
Employment, Hours, and Earnings from the Current Employment Statistics survey (National)

Series Id: CES3000000001
Series Title: All employees, thousands, manufacturing, seasonally adjusted
Super Sector: Manufacturing
Industry: Manufacturing
Data Type: ALL EMPLOYEES, THOUSANDS
Employment, Hours, and Earnings from the Current Employment Statistics survey (National)


The US has been loosing manufacturing jobs since before the 1990s. It is a long-term trend that was made more acute by the Great Recession that arrived in 2008 (as seen above).

Some recovery has occurred in jobs, but mostly all the manufacturing that remains is nowadays highly automated - and if not, even those manufacturers would have shipped the work off to foreign countries long, long ago ...

PS: Personal observation - I come from central Massachusetts where a plastics boom occurred pre- and post-WW2. Both of my parents worked in the plastics industries way up until the 1960s/70s. Then the industry moved south (but in the US), and then to Mexico and finally to China in the 1990s (as seen above). Those shops have been mostly converted into parking lots or offices. Not one production-line company remains ...

 

I haven't suggested to adopt the Amish or the Mennonite religion. I said you can replicate their economic model. Free of the religious dogma, you can replicate their model much faster and much more efficient.
It's quite a paradox to see that, today, the people who think so high of themselves (like you for example) are completely incapable to come together and to build a functional system. Your system is always getting in bigger and bigger problem and debts. While in the same time, people using no technology and having no political and no economic training can be much more successful than you: they are actually capable to build functional, egalitarian communities - something you and others like you are completely incapable to do.
Is this a sign of superior intelligence and heroism maybe?

If someone kills in your name that means you are wrong? If someone kills in the name of Jesus that means that Jesus was wrong? Jesus can't be wrong since he came with the universal religion of brotherhood. Unlike the socialists, the communists, the anarchists etc, he actually acted, instead of just vibrating air with empty words. He established a community and he did his best to help the people.

You know, arrogance can't really boost your credibility.

A bunch of cretins who are/were not even capable to replicate the performance of the Amish people, who can build a functional and egalitarian community without any knowledge of economy and without any political ideology, and without even using technology?
What better proof you want that Jesus was right and that all the economic and political theoreticians are nothing else than cretins?

Man's only hope is acting in good faith, not vibrating air.
Jesus was not a mystic crackpot. He promoted the universal principle of brotherhood, a principle the communists, the anarchists, the socialists and the freemasonry also promote but only in theory. In practice, they promote corruption, criminality, incompetence, terrorism and mass murders.

You can open your eyes and see that the history is full inventors who were not rich, and even poor many times.
You can open your eyes and see that the companies of the rich created new technology because they got money from the government - R&D funds or contracts. It was the government that funded IBM and Microsoft for example. In reality, it was the government that developed the computers. IBM and Microsoft were only the tools to develop them.
You can open your eyes and see that it's not the rich, but the people they employ who are inventing things.
Your life, your choice.

Just another idiotic statement of your cretin idol. Why is USA so moral? For supporting mass murderers all over the world? For supporting dreadful dictators in the Middle East? For providing a safe heaven to all the drug lords, organized crime leaders and corrupt politicians from all over the world? For dragging billions in deeper poverty by using the IMF and WB? For allowing speculation with in the private housing, education and sanitation sectors, that keeps those goods and services out of the reach for the many? For allowing anti-competitive practices that prevent providing the best prices for the products?
The people in the Scandinavian countries have a much better life than in the USA. Those countries have far better morality than the USA
But when one thinks that crime = charity, any idiotic statement becomes possible

Unbound from the moral values, yes
When you free yourself from the human qualities of honesty and good faith, then murder, terrorism, oppression and abuses becomes morality, indeed

 

The life of the people in East Germany was worse than in the West Germany, of course.
However, the life of the people in East Germany was far better than the life of the vast majority of the countries today, including some of the Western countries.
But the life in the West improved mainly because they had a competitor in the Soviet Union. When putting it in the real historical context, the Soviet Union was the best thing that happened int the 20th century. Thanks to the USSR, the life improved so much in the West - simply because the criminal Western governments had a strong competitor. Also they were the real winners of the World War Two. Without the help from Stalin, it would have been a lot harder and it would have taken a very long time for the Allies to defeat Hitler.
Today, the life is quickly deteriorating in the West - job insecurity, overpriced housing-education-sanitation out of the reach for the many, increasing criminality, increasing corruption. East Germany was much better than that: everyone had a job, an apartment, free education and free sanitation. Things that many American workers can only dream of.

Good. Keep trying to find naive people to believe that you are such a great hero for believing in the cretin Ayn Rand and for thinking that crime, mass murder, oppression and abuses are signs of morality.

Good riddance!

 

James and Bringiton: I'll give you guys this: you have a lot more patience with these liars and propagandists then I will ever have. If they really love socialism that much, I strongly suggest they go to Venezuela--it loves fools to death, literally.

 

I did mention it, and many times. The owners of the companies don't need to be rich. They don't even need to have their own money in order to start or to grow their own companies.
The vast majority of the private businesses are they are not looking for more and more profits, but they are happy to make just a decent living. There are 28 million small businesses in the USA. The claim that "the greed and the desire to accumulate wealth is the engine of growth and of the economy" is one of the biggest lies in the Western culture.
The company owners don't need anything above the average income. If they need money for investments, they can go to the banks, or to the venture capitals. Or they can sell bonds, or they can issue shares. Their wealth should be measured in the money they saved from their average income and in their private equity. So they don't need to be rich in the first place.
If the company makes a lot of profits, that means they overprice the stuff they are selling. In real capitalism, the private and public companies should have very close to zero profits. If they need money for expanding, they can go to the bank - and there are many alternatives to that.
I detailed the private ownership of the means of production and about raising capital in this post.

That's the biggest selling point for the people who are intensely marketing the capitalism: they claim that capitalism brings competition and all the benefits that come from it: best wages and best working conditions, best quality products and the lowest prices for their quality.
Is this thing happening? No!
Why? Because there is no real competition on the market.
Are you sure that you were reading my comments and not someone else's? I was not talking about paying high wages. By the contrary, I said that the wages that are above the average income at this moment should reduce to the average income, in order to provide real competition and best prices for the goods.
This is a criminal system encouraging speculation, not a capitalist system.

Then I suggest you read what I said, instead of just believing that you read what I said.
Private ownership of companies is capitalism.
Making only a decent living (the average income) from your business - like the vast majority of the private investors in the country - is capitalism.
Competing is capitalism. And it's the very engine of the capitalism. Providing the best prices as a result of that is capitalism.
What else you want in order to have capitalism? Maybe you want to encourage the speculation and the anti-competition practices of the companies? That's not capitalism - that's anti-capitalism.

 

I strongly suggest you to move to Bangladesh or to Mexico, to see the real benefits of capitalism. Or you can just wait - soon your country will become like Mexico anyways. The next Democrat president will do their best to make it happen.
What James is doing is nothing else than trolling and repeating a long string of nonsense and lies - and lately also insults.

His whole point is like "Look! There are rich people in this country, and you are dumb because you are not part of the rich! I don't care that the rich are growing their fortune by stealing from the poor and by keeping the population in misery - they pay 42% of the taxes and therefore they are so cool, man!!!"