God doesn't explain why there is not nothing.

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Channe, Nov 5, 2017.

  1. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    Suresure, but if you waive the criterion that things need to be created or caused, then the argument breaks. I'm not saying God couldn't create himself or always exist or whatever, it's just that if he does, then the argument "everything must have a cause" is not true, and the argument is not valid.
     
    tecoyah likes this.
  2. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Everything in our existence (universe) must have a cause. That is all we humans know at this point. We also know because of the expansion of the universe it had a beginning. There is no need to extend science to the existence or creation of God because science has no idea of anything beyond our own existence.
     
  3. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    There's randomness everywhere, will it be a 2 or a 6? Where's the cause? Quantum theory says the same thing.

    We don't know that the universe had a beginning. It's possible that the big bang was the result of a big contraction - the big bounce. There are ways of maybe testing that. Google it if you don't believe me.

    Science has every idea about what may exist, just apply the process. Oh wait, no proof about any god anywhere anytime.
     
  4. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Science does not even try to answer that question as it has no data to examine. It is an unfounded hypothesis that cannot be studied or experimented upon and is therefore dismissed.
     
  5. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Science does not really know much about the origins.

    Sure there is randomness but things do not appear out of nothing. I know Quantum theory has its....theories....
     
  6. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    All science has is the universe. Take into account fine tuning and there is enough evidence as far as science is concerned to say there is a creator.
     
  7. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh....that's all?

    As far as "fine tuning", I can only assume you refer to all the details of the Universe science has discovered because science most certainly does not attribute any of it to a creator, and definitely not the one you follow that man created.
     
  8. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Science should not even weigh in on the subject of God. It is not qualified to answer the question.
     
  9. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And it doesn't....like I just said. Science simply does not care about "God" or bother to discuss it because there is nothing there to discuss.
     
  10. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    I believe scientists, credible ones, do not completely rule out the idea of a creator.
     
  11. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Believe as you wish...but that is a very far cry from this:
    "
    doombug said:
    All science has is the universe. Take into account fine tuning and there is enough evidence as far as science is concerned to say there is a creator."
     
  12. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    This is true. I would see where a scientist would have trouble because all is not known about the universe. But being atheists does not make one a scientist.

    images-19.jpg

    Besides, taking all into consideration if one has this type of nonbelief then the agnostic position is the more honest one.
     
  13. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is important to understand that the entire point of scientific pursuit and indeed science itself is to delve into the unknown and accept that we do not know it all...if we did there would be no reason for science. It is also important to realize that most Atheists are also Agnostic (yes you can be both), they simply do not believe in a manmade God entity.
     
  14. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Find the objective fact based answer to those questions and I will put you up for the Nobel Peace Prize!
     
  15. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    nothing in your bank account or nothing in your apartment or nothing..... where???

    I'm hoping you are typing messages onto this forum from 'something'...

    Or are you in 'nothing land' getting messages over to us in the 'something land' using nothing but your thoughts?

    I honestly think that once people will begin stepping into the 'something land' from the 'nothing land', they will begin to understand how us in the something land were getting frustrated with the ideas coming from the 'nothing land'.

    Although I can create abstract, I cannot live in abstract.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    But creating abstract needs to be done from the 'something land'.


    I think that 'nothing' that many Eastern philosophies state is what some would call 'sleep'.

    Ecclesiastes 9:5
    "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."


    know: 3045. yada : acknowledge, acquainted with, advise, answer, appoint, assuredly, be aware


    If you are not aware, or awake, how will you know what is going on around you?


    dead: 4191. muth : crying, be dead body, man, one, put to, worthy of death, destroyer,

    Word Origin
    a prim. root
    Definition
    to die
    NASB Word Usage
    body (1), bring about my death (1), bring death (1), caused the death (1), certainly die (1), certainly put (1), certainly put me to death (1), corpse (2), dead (104), dead man (1), dead* (2), deadly* (1), death (21), deceased (5), destroy (2), die (214), die shall be put (1), died (167), dies (30), dying (1), kill (13), killed (24), killing (2), kills (4), means kill (2), mortally (3), must die (1), perished* (1), put (4), put her to death (1), put him to death (1), put him to death (20), put his to death (1), put me to death (1), put me to death (3), put my to death (1), put some to death (1), put the to death (3), put their to death (1), put them to death (1), put them to death ( 8 ), put to death (62), put us to death (2), put you to death (6), puts him to death (1), putting to death (1), slay (7), surely be put to death (56), surely we will kill (1), surely will die (1), surely die (16), surely* (1), took life (2).


    "nothing from nothing leads to nothing"

    Or as Mr. Billy Preston says, 'Nothing from nothing leaves nothing'.





    Obviously Mr. Billy Preston requires something in order to be with... LOL


    The way I'm hearing this song is like:

    [​IMG]




    Bonsoir. Puis-je prendre votre demande de nourriture et de boisson, s'il vous plaît?

    Je vous remercie. Je reviendrai bientôt. Prendre plaisir s'il vous plaît. :)

    Tommy! Deux tours de Louis Roederer Cristal.

    La gratuité sera ce que, je pense? Cent, deux cent, trois cent .. Attendez! Tommy!

    :dual:
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  16. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    That is a fascinating argument. Do you know the source? I assume a philosopher?
     
  17. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    The beginning may have been one thing changing forms into another as opposed to existence popping up where previously nothing existed. Causality is currently unknown.
     
  18. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If there is nothing you would not have asked this question. This response does not exist.
     
  19. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    Comment je vous garde tous dans mon coeur .. Si merveilleux!

    Sois parti! Je ne peux plus te retenir. Je serai libre! Libre! Libre!
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  20. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. Agnostics do not take a position on the existence of God because they claim not to know for sure. Athiests say there definitely is no God. New Athiests say there is no God and ridicule those who do believe. Note the difference?

    images-16.jpg
     
  21. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Okay little Doomy, guess what.

    I AM an agnostic Atheist and I will guarantee you I know my mind better than you ever will. DO NOT tell me I am wrong about something I live and you have absolutely no idea about( as is clear from your ignorant commentary). I certainly do not pretend to know your God or what you think about it and would appreciate you providing the same courtesy.

    Or is that not a Christian thing to do?
     
  22. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    How do we know that everything in our universe must have a cause? I mean, if we bend the rules for God, why couldn't we bend them for anything else?
     
  23. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    You are either atheist or agnostic. Pick one.
     
  24. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    The rules do not apply to God. Once again, you are talking about the physical universe we live in and the laws of this existence. Science does not even know all there is to know about our existence, therefore, science is not qualified to answer the question of God's existence.
     
  25. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am both...I leave open possibility but am absolutely sure every single one of the thingys we humans created and wrote about is false. That pretty much defines an Atheist who is Agnostic.

    Now...if you do not wish to extend the courtesy I do to you.....You no longer have the right to play the persecution complex card and whine that everyone is attacking your happy little sky fairy.
     

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