Why put the blame on the gun?

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by kazenatsu, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If someone gets stabbed with a kitchen knife, do we blame the kitchen knife?
    If someone gets run over by a car, do we blame the automotive vehicle?
    Why then if someone gets intentionally killed with a gun would you lay the blame on the gun?

    Let's not forget, out of the total number of gun homicides over 96% only involve a single victim.
     
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  2. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Reject the 'more guns=more homicides' hypothesis and you have a point. Good luck!
     
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  3. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How relevant is that, really?
    We all know there'd be fewer car crash fatalities if there were less cars, but obviously that's not a justification for taking cars off the streets.
    The fact if the matter is, someone intentionally chose to commit murder. Does it matter so much if the means to commit the crime were more conveniently at their disposal?
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
  4. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    For your last comment? Crucial. Evidence suggests guns increase crime rates after all.

    Bobbins comment. If you can prove that guns are on a par with cars for life effects then well done!
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
  5. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What evidence is that? I'm really curious.
    Don't tell me that crime rates are higher in the U.S. than Europe so it must be gun laws that are to blame.
     
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  6. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Such evidence does not actually exist, otherwise it would have been presented by yourself.
     
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  7. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In the U.S. there are about 12,000 shooting homicides annually. The number of car crash fatalities is over 37,000. (That's over 3 times as many people dying from cars)
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
  8. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    For the 'more crime' hypothesis? The bulk of the evidence supports it. Classic papers provided by Cook & Ludwig and Duggan.

    International comparison of crime rates is quite rare. Its typically econometric analysis of a specific country (usually America because of the data availability). However, analysis from other countries tends to support the US. God bless em!
     
  9. AltLightPride

    AltLightPride Well-Known Member

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    If some dictator decides to nuke America, do you blame the nuke?
    Open market for nukes!

    If someone decides to take drugs, do you blame the syringe?
    Legalize heroin!
     
  10. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    It is easy to blame a Gun.
    Gun stores with Guns galore.
    I hear Anti Gun propaganda all day long,
    preached as Gospel from the pulpit.

    And to those that do not know better, it sounds right, no ?

    Look at Los Angeles, high crime, yet few people have concealed carry..
    And illegal drug sales, prostitution, organized crime,
    Thus results in a high murder rate.

    The proposed solution ?
    More gun restrictions affecting only the law abiding, and this solution solves absolutely nothing.
     
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  11. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, many Libertarians have been making that argument.
    Although it's not quite the same issue.

    Anyway, we can ask ourselves how effective drug control legislation has actually been, since there are still plenty of addicts.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
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  12. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    The left focuses on the gun because it wants the state to have a monopoly on force.
     
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  13. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because gun control isn't about guns, it's about control. LWers fervently believe that only elites should be in charge and everyone else should be controlled for their own good.
     
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  14. Covfefe

    Covfefe Banned

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    When you can post up in a high rise from 500 yards away and mow down 58 people with a fully auto knife thrower them we can have that discussion.

    Guns are unique from other "objects"
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
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  15. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Can we talk about rental trucks? In 2015, there were 252 homicides by rifle. There were only 25 deaths in mass shootings with rifles. There were 1,544 homicides by knife in 2015.

    What is actually more dangerous to society?
     
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  16. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Why do you not know the LV shooter did not use a full-auto rifle?
     
  17. Covfefe

    Covfefe Banned

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    Oh please he had a mod to turn it into full or at least behave like one.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  18. Covfefe

    Covfefe Banned

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    There are around 12,000 deaths from guns this year already, that's a lot more than 1500 I would say.
     
  19. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    So you -did- know he did not use a full-auto rifle.
    Why did you make a statement you know was not true?
     
  20. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    ~8,000 of these are the fault of the victim.
     
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  21. Covfefe

    Covfefe Banned

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    Because the mod turned his rifle into a rifle that could perform full auto. THAT is the thing out of all this you will nit pick? Christ...
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  22. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Why do you not know this is absolutely false?
    Your statements here prove one of two things -- you're ignorant of the facts or you post dishonestly.
    Either way, it serves to illustrate your credibility as a poster.
    So.. which is it?
     
  23. Covfefe

    Covfefe Banned

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    Alright so lets flesh this out, what does a bump stock do? What is its purpose?

    I know what its purpose is I'm asking for your definition.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  24. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Aha! Ignorance it is. Good of you to admit it.

    It allows a person to pull the trigger on a semi-automatic firearm a fraction faster then he could by himself.
     
  25. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would no more blame the gun then I would a poison... but I would say the cause of death was gun shoot or poison, but the person using those tools did the killing

    the fact is, we as a country realize there are risks to giving all free Americans the right to own a gun... it's a right.. not a privilege like driving a car that can be revoked

    but in a free country such as ours we believe the benefits outweigh the risks
     

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