Standards lowered to produce first female Green Beret.....

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by MMC, Dec 2, 2017.

  1. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's all coming together now, Hitler had to be using lead based paint that causes behavioral problems so they say.

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  2. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not to minimize the need for various forms of ground combat forces with small arms, this is NOT the primary concern of the military. It is only the primary concern of those within the command structure and and those of such units.

    What IS the military most concerned about? The technological development war. Technological advances are coming so fast from ever increasing directions that trying to keep ahead of the curve ourselves, while trying not to be blindsided by an opponent, is a huge growing challenge. From drones to micro-bots, biological weapons to space fired kinetic bombs, death rays to gamma bursts, lasers to photon cannons, microwave and EMP weapons, hacking our computers to cut military communications and disable equipment to grounding aircraft, computer hacking and viruses to shut down power grids, communications, steal or delete financial information, hacking into national security systems, our aged nuclear weapons systems, our insufficient anti-missile defenses ... the list goes on and on and on.

    It is not ONLY what new technology we can develop, but also what possible technologies are others developing or might discover - so it is both an increasingly complex and diverse offensive and defensive technological race/war. One major failure on the defensive side could be devastatingly destructive or harmful. One new technology we develop to a usable system could give us an overwhelming superior edge.

    So in the overall of it, when approached with "if you lower standards to let women in to combat roles it will severely harm our military," many will think "we're trying to keep any foreign power from shutting down our power grid, stealing trillions from the banking and stock market, trying to protect our national security secrets, have to figure out what to hell to do about North Korea, Iran and the endless chaos of the ME, and you are whining about push up standards for infantry?! If we pass a someone - male or female - who can only do 3 pushups, but along the way we learn he or she can develop hacking or anti-hacking programs we want that person. We'd not only graduate him or her, we'd give them the title of Navy Seal, Green Beret, Ranger or whatever else it takes to get and keep that person."

    Its about priorities and costs.

    Lower passing basic training standards to prevent failure could be as simple as every new enlistee costs a lot of money - and if that person is booted out all that money was wasted. Possibly, they don't really think the skill level of someone policing a street corner or military base is that skills critical. They may see it as basically physically fit is good enough. Plus the days of extended recon and on the ground special ops is generally coming to an end. Just send a drone, re-direct a satellite, send a missile, do an airstrike.

    It really isn't that they don't care about ground forces, special ops and the rest. Rather, there's only a dime for every dollar they need when all veterans needs are also counted. So the standards for troops with rifles or even 20+ year old F16s that can't fly are WAY down their priorities list.
     
  3. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    Re 'Stalingrad' and Russians the Soviets relied on primitive human wave attacks, German forces much less so. Such tactics require neither brains nor brawn, just fear and stupidity, so yes, women and pretty much anything else that could walk and draw fire was acceptable in their armed forces. It's also why their assaults could be repeatedly stopped and beaten back by conscript units made up of poorly supplied and starving 12 year old kids and old men, requiring several assaults in most cases, against small and poorly armed enemy units who were merely civilians with small resources.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  4. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    Both of my sons' Boy Scout Troops used that manual in their 'war games'; best fun they ever had in Scouts, except for the summer canoe trips out of Ely, Minn.'s Charles L. Sommers Wilderness Base. A couple years after the youngest went on to college, the local PC Nazis raised noise about it so they had to drop the games. Crosman is a good American company, too.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
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  5. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    While some of the aberrant behavior of the Roman rulers was attributed to excessive lead exposure, Hitler's drug of choice was dramatically different.
    As you probably already know, he was addicted to several uppers & downers to the point that his Dr. Morell had trouble finding a good vein for the next injection.
    While the Germans frequently used Methamphetamine (Pervitin) to keep going, Allied pilots etc took amphetamine.


    "High Hitler: How drugs fuelled the Nazi war machine"

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/...-drugs-fuelled-the-nazi-war-machine-1.2859461

    EXCERPT "Soon Hitler was perpetually wired on a bewildering array of uppers and downers – including cocaine, the drug denounced by Nazi ideology as a Jewish vice. Morell struggled to find an intact vein to hit in the addict Führer’s track-marked arms. Hitler developed a bad case of the shakes.
    There, rattled by years of drug use and the probable onset of withdrawal, Hitler hit nihilistic rock bottom by ordering the total destruction of Germany; when he shot himself in the head it was with a hand that shook so badly he feared for his ability to hit the target.
    In the invasion of Poland alone 35 million doses of Pervitin were consumed by German troops, who were commanded to push ahead for days on end without sleep. One medical historian reckons that “Blitzkrieg was guided by metamphetamine”."CONTINUED
     
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  6. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I just read about Yang Kyoungjong after your Post. Quite an interesting character. Thanks

    Meanwhile, the Germans didn't us the term "Master Race"

    "The German ‘Master Race’ Myth"

    https://20thcenturytruth.wordpress.com/the-german-master-race-myth/

    EXCERPT "‘Master Race’ a term never used during the Third Reich.
    For example, ‘Master Race’ is not a correct translation of “Herrenvolk”.
    ‘Volk’ is not the same as ‘Rasse.’ and ‘Herr’ is not necessarily ‘Master.’
    For example, the Jews will admit to being a ‘Volk.’ but never a ‘Rasse.’

    The most obvious meaning of ‘Herrenvolk’ is a nation of people possessing ‘Volksherrschaft,’ or popular government (and, presumably, a ‘Volkswirtschaft’ is a somewhat nationalist or socialist economy).

    "CONTINUED
     
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  7. camp_steveo

    camp_steveo Well-Known Member

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    I was infantry from 99-05. The standards were being lowered then. We were not allowed to smoke joe for one. We had to go out behind the motor pool....LOL
     
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  8. camp_steveo

    camp_steveo Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, a couple of my buddies went to selection and the star course was the main part. Are we depending on GPS too much?
     
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  9. MMC

    MMC Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  10. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Never liked to be around people smoking. But I had to bunk with roommates who smoked in the Army. Back in the 80's one could smoke indoors in most places.

    The only standards I'm glad they've lowered since I was in was having to do all the PT tests and all the physical training in uniform and combat boots. Lots of guys trashed their flat feet in those days for no good reason.
     
  11. camp_steveo

    camp_steveo Well-Known Member

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    First of all, modern infantry is not easier because of technology.

    Secondly, infantry units are typically undermanned by about 25%. In my 6 years in 1/9 Cav, we were never at combat strength. So, no, there are not 500 high school football players signing up everyday.
     
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  12. camp_steveo

    camp_steveo Well-Known Member

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    No....LOL smoking joe is what we call extra PT for a joe who messed up. You know, drop and give me 50, except we would make the pain last for like an hour or so, sometimes a lot longer, depending on the offense.
     
  13. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Never heard of that term. We would always just complain of "being dogged." There were 300 of us in our basic training/initial AIT unit. So lots of people people making mistakes out in the hot summer desert. They let us put out gloves on first before push ups on the burning asphalt or rocky sand. Their favorite torture back then was the "sand pit" that we had to crawl thru---with choking dust, and chewing up our uniforms and boots.

    This was just for us in Air Defense----basic infantry training a decade later I'm sure was much worse for you.
     
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  14. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    With uppers comes paranoia.

    Hitler seemed to be parodied.

    Even American pilots during WW ll, Korea and Vietnam used go go pills. Don't know about today, have to ask my son.

    In Vietnam if a Marine grunt was tight with the Navy corpsman he could get these black capsules that from why I understand was Dexedrine.

    Sleep deprivation in combat is a huge concern. How many times at 0-Dark 30 was I preying that I don't fall asleep letting my buddies down ?
     
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  15. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    It's a play on Nietzsche's 'Uber Mensch', the Nazis favorite philosopher's concept, and derivative of.Bismarck's campaign to create a binding sense of cohesion and nationalism inside of the then new German Federation of the 1870's. Max Weber and others were proponents of the 'German People' as a distinct nation and tribe; the Nazis just built on what was already a government policy of the former Imperial govt. and added eugenics and 'scientific' and historical overtones to the concept, so while those words were never literally used, it is an acceptable indication of what they were inventing for themselves and the Nietzchian/Nazi 'Ideal German' fantasy. Nietzsche was a homosexual who was infected with syphilis and died from it, essentially insane, for those unfamiliar with him and his 'philosophy'.

    The Orthodox Jewish version is also highly racist and fixated on 'racial purity' and their families' genealogies as well; substitute 'Chosen People' for 'Master Race', for instance, and you have more or less the same idea. The idea is as old as the idea of tribes and distinct peoples in human history, not something invented by Nazis or right wing Japanese, despite the modern window dressing 'science' can add to terminology and rhetoric.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  17. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Cancer sticks.
     
  18. Right is the way

    Right is the way Well-Known Member

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    One thing I loved about having the privilege of serving in a special forces unit was the fact that there were no women and I loved the pt. I only served in one a unit with women for one year and absolutely hated it. Putting women into the mix of a unit like that will do no good in my opinion. And no I am not special forces tabbed, just served in the unit MID 2nd Battalion 3rd SFG. I can tell youmfirst hand the physical fitness level you were expected to have was pretty high.
     
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  19. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    Look up the maintenance hours for most modern gear versus older gear, especially armor, excluding electronics, or even including some of it. You need either a lot more personnel, or demanding a lot more hours from the personnel available for support, and we know they aren't hiring a lot more soldiers, so the physical requirements have to increase, not decrease, across the board. Example:

    http://www.gao.gov/assets/220/213784.pdf

    Note they won't include the additional hours and labor, so you know those are most likely outrageously above the numbers originally sold to the committees.

    Older stuff for the Peanut Gallery that I just have available at the moment, that may or may not be relevant currently, semi-related.

    http://www.317thengineers.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Eschborn-V-Vehicles.pdf

    http://asktop.net/wp/download/3/R710_1.pdf
     
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  20. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Limies use to call them f*gs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  21. camp_steveo

    camp_steveo Well-Known Member

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    The US Army Infantry Training Brigade is at Ft Benning, GA, just outside Columbus, along the Chattahoochee, where, according to country singer Alan Jackson, it gets hotter than a hoochie coochie. It's nickname is "Sandhill". You can imagine the pain they inflict on infantry recruits.
     
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  22. camp_steveo

    camp_steveo Well-Known Member

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    As an infantry fire team leader in Iraq 2004-05, my load consisted of OTV with ceramic plates, Kevlar helmet, combat lifesaver bag, M-16 with M203 grenade launcher attachment, sometimes a 12 gauge for breaching doors, ammo (various 40mm m203 rounds, a dozen or so m16 mags, a couple of fragmentation grenades, an incendiary grenade, a 100 oz water blister aka camelback. My squad automatic weapons gunner carried 1000 rounds on him, my rifleman carried various other tools such as a breach kit aka hooligan tools or a collapse-able ladder. We were all weighted down to the max. I always asked the question, "how is this 'light 'infantry.?..LOL
     
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  23. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    Speaking of 'hot', do they still do any training in Panama after basic? My father's units had to before being shipped to Australia in the '40's. They went through Benning back then. He said it was the most miserable time of his life there. His unit history:

    http://www.ww2-airborne.us/18corps/503_overview.html

    This part isn't entirely true; some of the officers went on to Japan. They were reassigned to other units in the 11th and some intel staffs before the units were deactivated stateside, as were some of the sergeants.

    All men with lengthy service in the Southwest Pacific had been rotated to the United States while those who had served the Combat Team for a shorter time had been reassigned to the 11th Airborne Division and sent as occupation troops to Japan.

    He lost his best friend to an artillery piece landing on them somewhere, New Guinea, I think.
     
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  24. camp_steveo

    camp_steveo Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't tell you the answer about Panama. My 1st squad leader back in early 2000 was stationed there as was one of my drill sgts. My squad leader told me about getting punched by a monkey who stole his peanuts...LOL
     
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  25. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Interesting reading one after another telling their history, apparently claiming everything and anything ground combat and special forces types do is ONLY what they did. No one else EVER did or will do anything but what they did, that's all and only what the Marines, Rangers, Green Berets, Infantry and all special forces do ever - exactly and only what they did. Then explain no woman could.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017

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