The debt is proof of our wealth

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by GodTom, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    You need my permission mate, because I am a large animal and I'm not offering you that liberty

    (Since it comes at the expense of a liberty of my own that I value more than yours).

    Your own greed maybe all the justification you need to take liberties from me, but my ability to remove a great many of your liberties from you should not be underestimated.

    I earned my land. You did not.
    All you need to know.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  2. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    WSDE only suggests a management system. It doesn't suggest anything about the environment in which a business operates. Hi Kode. Back to your misunderstanding of and misinformation about business, it seems.
     
  3. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it's a business management alternative. Where is the "misunderstanding of and misinformation" that you're referring to?
     
  4. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    The comment that their main focus is not profit. They may not know it is profit and you may not know it is profit but it is profit. Otherwise it will fail.
     
  5. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    For a corporation rent-seeking behaviour is a key element of the profit objective. It isn't in worker ownership. Indeed, higher profit would typically be a spillover from productivity maximisation.
     
  6. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    You know that a WSDE won't rent-seek?
     
  7. james M

    james M Banned

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    rent seeking is when you make money too easily for a libcommies taste. A liberal won't know that when money can be made easily it encourages more and more competition
    until it is no longer easy to make money. A libcommie will want to crack down on rent seeking at gunpoint and crackdown on 100001 other capitalist activities at gunpoint until our govt is fully communist.

    Norman Thomas ( socialist presidential candidate)
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.
     
  8. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    I understand that you prefer to profit from injustice, and even forcibly to inflict it on others for that purpose. Most landowners are content for government to use force on their behalf, and don't need the thrill of seeing the fear and despair in their victims' eyes.
    No? Your "possessions" include their rights to liberty. Now does it make more sense?
    That's not the choice on offer, and you know it. It's a community and democratic government whose job is to secure and reconcile the equal rights of all to life, liberty, and property in the fruits of their labor or a greedy, privileged, thieving private parasite answerable only to himself. Justice vs injustice. Not a complicated concept.
    I get it. You fancy yourself some sort of feudal lord. No doubt your intentions as landowner include droit du seigneur.
     
  9. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    No, you are aware that that is false. It is uncompensated private exclusion on the current model that steals people's rights to liberty, because it does not provide any compensation to the victims. Making just compensation as proposed in the geoist model is not stealing because the loss is compensated. You just prefer injustice to justice, evil to good. You literally believe that evil is better than good as long as it is profitable to you personally, so you pretend that there is no difference between justice (market value compensation) and injustice (no compensation). Simple.
     
  10. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    It's everyone, and that won't change. The difference is just compensation for the exclusion vs no compensation.
    It's despicable and disingenuous to presume to speak for your victims in order to renounce their rights on their behalf.
    You too, champ.
     
  11. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    It's a basic tenet of our society.
    "An Englishman's home is his castle".

    It's a free country mate.
    We are all free men.



    When you see some land do you think to yourself, "that land is mine, I earned it"
    Or do you think, that land belongs to everyone. No one earned it.

    I don't think you have any respect for what other people have earned at all.
    You think without having earned it you have as much right to it as those who did.

    All you need to know about a piece of land is this, did you earn it?
    If the answer is "no", why are you laying claim to it?
    Because you haven't thought it through is the answer, because you allowed your greed to get the better of your judgement.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  12. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Just the shame that homelessness has gone through the roof
     
  13. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    My right to liberty is not something I get from you or seek from you. You have no power to give me liberty. You only have power to violate it by committing crimes against me -- which I understand it is your intention to do. So no, I do not need your permission any more than our ancestors for millions of years needed the permission of some self-righteous megalomaniac to use what nature provided to sustain themselves.
    There is no such thing as a liberty right to remove others' liberty rights, as that is a self-contradiction. In fact, you are not interested in a right to liberty at all. You just want to use force to impose your will on others. Your every sentence reeks of it.
    You are the one forcibly removing others' liberty, and I will thank you to remember it.
    Thank you for proving what I told you at the outset: you are not interested in liberty or rights. Your intention is to steal by force, ignoring others' rights and claiming, absurdly and disingenuously, that it is your "liberty right" to do so.
    No, you most certainly did not, as that is impossible. Labor earns its product. As land is not a product of anyone's labor, it can never be earned by labor.
    No one ever can.
    Hehe. That's what Muslims say about the Qu'ran. So I get where you're coming from: you claim a "liberty" right to impose your will on others by force. You certainly are not the first to do so, and likely won't be the last. Unfortunately, I already know a lot more than you want me to. And anyone reading my posts is learning it, too. Including you, whether you want to or not.
     
  14. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    A home is not land.
    Garbage.
    Nope. Our rights to liberty have been removed by force and made into the private property of the privileged, especially landowners.
    I am aware of the fact that no one could possibly have earned it.
    I have more than you, anyway: at least, unlike landowners, I don't presume to demand that others give me what they have earned in return for nothing.
    It is impossible to earn ownership of other people's rights to liberty. I know what I have earned, and it can never include that.
    No, because there is no information there: no one could ever have earned it.
    I only lay claim to my right to liberty. On what basis is anyone laying claim to land? They certainly didn't produce it.
    Oh, but I have, champ. Count on it.
    ROTFL!! Check your dictionary. Greed is defined as excessive, rapacious desire for what one neither needs nor deserves. That sounds an awful lot like a landowner to me. In fact, landowners have been proverbial for greed throughout history, in every society where land has been private property. The landowner, specifically and uniquely, demands that others pay HIM full market value for the services and infrastructure government provides, the opportunities and amenities the community provides, and the physical qualities nature provides at that location. You will note the absence from that list of anything the landowner provides.

    Time for YOU to start thinking it through, champ. If you have the courage. Which I am certain you do not.
     
  15. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    No, it's absolutely true. If they exclude me from any land, they are stealing my right to liberty, even if the do give me their measly "compensation". They're still stealing my right to liberty, and that's evil.
     
  16. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    And you neither need nor deserve anyone else's land. Greedy.

    When you have worked your arse off for long enough you will deserve the land you buy if you choose to spend your earnings on some.

    Until then, live at your mum's.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  17. james M

    james M Banned

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    1) and only a libcommie govt can determine what one truly needs and deserves-right?
    2) how could we have Ford Inc. and Apple Inc. if Ford and Jobs did not want $billions??
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  18. james M

    james M Banned

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    Agreed, the right to property is one of the most important liberties. Imagine empowering a Nazi govt to take away land every ones land? Such a govt would feel empowered to do anything it wanted.
     
  19. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    No. Every child understands what it means to need something -- you will not be healthy without it -- and to deserve something: a reward commensurate with a contribution, or a penalty commensurate with a deprivation.

    You just want to stop people from thinking about who deserves what because you know the privileged deserve far less than they are taking.
    Money is just how they keep score. They do it because they love it, as Jobs stated explicitly.
     
  20. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    No, I already proved it's false.
    No, that's false, as I already proved to you. You also don't have a liberty right to spy on other people, but that right has not been stolen because you get your own right to privacy in return as just compensation. However, no compensation is given when private landowners forcibly remove our rights to liberty. That's what makes it evil.

    I already proved to you that life in society requires us to relinquish some of the liberty we would enjoy as solitary creatures, but the benefits we get in compensation more than make up for it. But we don't get any compensation when private landowners forcibly remove our rights to liberty, so that system is evil. Just compensation only happens in the geoist system that recognizes the equal liberty rights of all to access the opportunities nature and society provide.
    No, I already proved to you that that is false. Evil requires INTENT TO INFLICT INJUSTICE, like your intention to remove others' rights to liberty and not compensate them for the harm you do them or the profit you make by stealing from them. Market compensation for abrogation of rights, as in the geoist system, means no injustice is inflicted and therefore no evil is done.

    You simply do not want justice. You think injustice is better than justice, that evil is better than good. That's the only possible reason you are struggling so hard to contrive some way to deny the indisputable facts I have identified. I'm not sure there is any clearer or simpler way to explain that to you.
     
  21. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    So are you literally saying that the right to property in other people's rights to liberty, whether as slaves or land titles, is one of the most important "liberties," or are you finally admitting that the right to property does not apply to other people's rights to liberty, and therefore does not apply to people or land titles?
    All governments by definition administer possession and use of land. The ACTUAL Nazis, of course, like all fascists, took pains not to disturb landowner privilege.
    No, your claims continue to be false and absurd. Hong Kong, where all land has been publicly owned for over 160 years, has often topped lists of the freest and most prosperous economies and societies on earth.

    See how false, absurd and disingenuous I always prove your nonsense to be?
     
  22. james M

    james M Banned

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    I'm saying a man with liberty is at liberty to buy or sell a car or land at the free market price which reflects all the tangible and intangible value of the car and land.
     
  23. james M

    james M Banned

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    but to vastly different degrees, sometimes the land owners right are considered most important and sometimes not.
     
  24. james M

    james M Banned

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    1) why are you pretending that hong kong is a representative govt.
    2) land prices in hong kong or Chicago are sky high thanks to the free market
     
  25. james M

    james M Banned

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    so we must empower a lib Nazi govt to dictate fairly what people deserve?
     

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