Space is not expanding!

Discussion in 'Science' started by Equality, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. Equality

    Equality Banned

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    Many people because of the Big bang theory think and believe that space itself is expanding. The objective reality and evident proof is it is not expanding.
    People make the same common mistake over and over and do not look at the evidence.

    The observed Hubble red-shift is of galaxies/bodies in accordance with the Doppler shift.

    The observed red-shift is not of space itself.

    What is meant by space is expanding is meaning that the distance between bodies becomes greater.

    Now in science expansion is explained one way using a balloon analogy.

    In this analogy one important piece of information is ignored.

    When inflating a balloon geometrical points of space that are outside the balloons surface/skin end up inside the balloon when inflated.


    A.......deflated balloon......B


    Inflated balloon.....A...........................B....Inflated balloon.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

    In the above link you will see a picture of the CMBR , 2nd pic down, place point A on the left and point B on the right,

    what happens to those points if we expanded the picture of the cmbr?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  2. Equality

    Equality Banned

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    Evidence 2 - the perception of the dark background of space is an illusion, there is lots of light in that space.

    The inverse square law playing a key roll and also the perspective of sight.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  3. Equality

    Equality Banned

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    Evidence 3 - for something to expand it needs a volume of space to expand into which is a physical fact.
     
  4. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Why can't it take its space along with it.
     
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  5. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Space needs space to expand into? Okie dokie.
     
  6. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Space alone doesn't emit light.
     
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  7. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Explain the theory of inflation in real terms and not using mindless analogies.
     
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  8. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    I've never understood the need so many people have to make their own little religion out of ignorance.

    Let me guess: You voted for trump, right?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
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  9. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    You are correct, expansion means that the distance between bodies becomes greater. The balloon analogy is always used to convey that in layman's terms to the average joe because it's a quick and easily understood analogy that the common man can envision. No actual scientists use that analogy with each other to "prove" anything, they just do it to show the average joe roughly what they are talking about.

    You say when inflating a balloon the geometric points outside of the balloons surface end up inside the balloon. That's true because there is something outside of the surface of the balloon here on Earth obviously. When talking about the Expansion of the Universe there is no "outside of the surface of the balloon" but the balloon is still inflating. That's why when I use that analogy I always make sure to include something along the lines of "also picture that the surface of the balloon is everything that there is, there is nothing around the balloon for it to expand in to".

    Once you get to that point the average joe tends to get confused because human brains aren't really wired to picture something expanding into nothing and it doesn't make sense to them. That's why most people just leave it at the balloon analogy.
     
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  10. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    The meaning or implication of physics equations are translated into language the layman can comprehend, generally by analogy. The problem is that most laymen don't understand that these analogies are for their benefit but not the basis for the theory. It is a dumbed down version of the real science.

    If you want to understand the expansion of space, spend ten years becoming an expert at General Relativity. Then you can ask intelligent questions and may even be entitled to an opinion.
     
  11. Equality

    Equality Banned

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    You were correct until the part I quoted. Do not not know that nothing has dimensions?

    There is no balloons surface there is only the dots on the imaginary surface. There is also certainly an outside of the surface. People do not understand the surface of the balloon is actually the finite boundary of light relative to size of the observed body.

    Light traverses isotropic, the distant light from distant galaxies not only traverses in our direction but it also traverses the opposite direction from the distant body. To understand the relative correctness you must firstly understand the nature of light, the inverse square law and perspective observation. You must also understand that it is light between the distant bodies and light beyond the last observed bodies. The relative darkness background of space is an optical illusion.

    Quite clearly my physics is ahead of you ....
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  12. Equality

    Equality Banned

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    I have spent about 10 years learning science, I guess I am an expert in relativity....
     
  13. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Someones balloon needs to be popped.
     
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  14. Equality

    Equality Banned

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    Yes I have an inflated ego when it comes to my correct semantics of science information.
     
  15. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually...pretty much every single professional, all of which have far more experience and education on these subjects than you EVER will disagree with your interpretation and in fact state much the opposite. Given the choice of reading their synopsis and research papers vs. your "Interesting" drivel I have no logical choice but to snicker and back away from the garbage you spew.
     
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  16. reallybigjohnson

    reallybigjohnson Banned

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    I took an astronomy class in college as a "fun" class and noticed that you can see multiple copies of galaxies. I suggested that after making so many galaxies God got bored and just started copy pasting them all over the place. It turns out that its called gravitational lensing.
     
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  17. Equality

    Equality Banned

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    They can all disagree and they would still be wrong. I can prove them wrong and have already shown why they are wrong. If you do not have the intellect to understand this knowledge , I suggest you stay in your corner.
     
  18. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I will happily go to my corner and avoid further wasted time.

    Have A Nice Day:???:
     
  19. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    You are talking about 2 different things in regards to the balloon analogy. You are talking about the observable universe, Im talking about the entire universe.

    Whenever I see the balloon analogy used it's when folks are talking about the entire universe and if the analogy is used in that sense then there is no "outside of the surface of the balloon".
     
  20. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    I believe you are confusing terminology here. The Universe and the Observable Universe are not the same thing. Your entire "theory" here is dealing with the Observable Universe which disproves absolutely nothing.

    Your claim "Evidence 3 - for something to expand it needs a volume of space to expand into which is a physical fact." is wrong and has been proven wrong by multiple accredited Astrophysicists over the years.

    Simply proclaiming something does not make it true. What you have claimed there as "physical fact" is what most people do who do not understand which is why the average joe has such a difficult time grasping the concept of Universal Expansion.

    You're basically saying that the Universe cannot just expand without there being something for it to expand into. Well the answer is yes it can, and it is, and just because you don't understand how that can be so does not mean that it isn't so.

    As Neil deGrasse Tyson so eloquently put it "The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you".
     
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  21. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Have you published your paper yet for peer review? Since you seem to have debunked nearly a century of scientific consensus, seems like that would be a pretty important discovery.

    Lol
     
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  22. Equality

    Equality Banned

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    With all due respect Mr moderator you are only stating present thought information. Let us start with some simple physics if you are willing to discuss without being biased towards present information?

    Let me start with a simple issue where you claim for something to expand it does not need space to expand into.

    I will draw your attention towards a can of gas, we will heat the can of gas so the gas tries to expand, can you please explain why the gas does not expand but becomes pressured instead?

    To speed up our conversation you and I both know it becomes pressured because there is containment, the gas not expand because there is no space to expand into.
    Physical proof expansion needs space to expand into.

    The same as inflating a balloon, the balloon will not expand unless there is space to expand into,

    Do you disagree with any of those simple facts?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  23. Equality

    Equality Banned

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    I have debunked Einstein and time dilation, this is just something else, to be honest, they don't seem to care even though I am right which makes me think it is all over soon.
     
  24. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    :roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol:

    All you need to do is publish your paper, and have it peer reviewed. Going on an anonymous internet board claiming to have debunked Einstein, time dilation, and now this, is just silly.
     
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  25. Equality

    Equality Banned

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    I guess you never read my paper on this forum in this section, look it up then return , you won't be laughing then.
     

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