Military Quietly Prepares for a Last Resort: War With North Korea

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by trucker, Jan 14, 2018.

  1. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure that every generation of Kim would consist of people who want the power in NK. There are easier and more convenient roles. Imagine yourself in position of Kim. You have one of the poorest and the most threatened country in the world. Lots of people wish you to be dead personally. Does it look like a job of your dreams? Transformed Korea, reunified Korea has a chance to become a nice competitor to China and Japan. Labour, because of NKoreans would remain cheap for years. The most problem is that no one in the world wants any better future for such a country. And the alternative of millions of Koreans dead because of nuclear pollution seems to be more acceptable. This for me is much worse than all the Kims taken together at the very worst opinion of each.
     
  2. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    Yep. Having seen what happened to the ruling classes in East Germany after their re-unification, NK's brass will use their nukes to negociate themselves some priviledges within the reunited entity.

    A coup by China? Forget it; China isn't a pro-active power; what it desires is stability, not interventionism. We're not talking about knee-jerk Yanks here. I think the real oppo will come from, yes, the US and Japan. There's still a lot of resentment for Japan in both Koreas.
     
  3. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    Using WWII-like caricature to despict your opponent is quite a subjective approach.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  4. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    North korea is poor but not threatened except through its own actions

    North korea is the one making threats as it has done against south korea for decades

    As long as kim is alive - and he is only 27 - there no chance of peace or reunification

    As for nuclear pollution the US will not use nukes unless kim does

    So you should get on board th have him removed by the chinese through a coup while there is still time

    But china wont do thst because they are our enemy also and are using kim to harrass the US
     
  5. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Do you not believe that north korea is a kim family dynasty?

    If you dont konw you shuld talk less and listen more

    Starting with your uninformed opinion that china is just a big, soft, cuddly teddy bear who is strictly non aggressive
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  6. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    To what, your elementary, skin-deep knowledge? You are a repertory of all of the common, mediatic and governmental biases that were made to keep the people meek and in line about NK. I bet you don't know a single person who actually went there, so you took all of you know about NK from tabloid, suffragette sources.

    Well, compared to you, it certainly is. I have more confidence in China's governance than I have in yours, no offenses.
     
  7. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Will you support America if there is war with north korea?
     
  8. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    No. And I won't support NK neither.

    I would, however, help either with reconstruction.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  9. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    You are helping north korea by blaming the US for this crisis
     
  10. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, I do not want to destroy my country, I just want my country to change. We are far too aggressive. We war monger. And humans die in great numbers. It is America's great sin, post ww2. I saw America as a light, a force of good in this world, after ww2. Many americans did, but then our politicians took us to the dark side, where we became no different than what we fought against in ww2. While pretending to be doing good, pretending to be some kind of moral force.

    Why does there have to always be some empire, forcing itself upon other nations? Are we doomed to some empire taking our place? We never seem to get good, moral empires. Never. Given that all empires fail and fall, why would we be so stupid as to want to be an empire anyways? I guess those men in power who want empires, only hope it lasts for as long as they are alive, and can reap the personal benefits from it? For surely they know, it will eventual fail and fall. And if it were an evil empire, we might get torn to bits, by those we imposed ourselves upon. Reaping what was sowed.
     
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  11. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes stability requires intervention, and the Chinese know this. They've done it before.

    Kim and Friends are not running the country in a way that is conducive to stability, instead they always hover on the edge of disaster. A re-unified Korea as a proper republic will be in the interests of both the Chinese and the Americans.

    The Japanese are a different story entirely. A unified Korea is certainly not in their interest, especially as the Koreans are quite inclined to keep good relations both with the Chinese and the Americans.

    Indeed, if the Koreas remain disunited for another generation I fully expect that the Japanese, not the Chinese, will be propping up a weak regime.
     
  12. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    Maybe... Probably because NK is the one nation with a foreign army "problem" poised on its borders, a problem the US does not have. So yeah, by my stance I guess I am "helping them" somehow. I feel more comfortable with helping people rather than hindering them.
     
  13. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Nor de we want to have desth on our doorstep in the form of north korean nuclear armed ICBMs
     
  14. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    China is already are doing something about NK, have been doing it for decades. If China didn't wanted NK to have the Bomb, NK wouldn't have it as we speak. China isn't much happy with KJU's regime making tabula rasa of its interests of late, sure, but what they will do is follow some longer-termed strategy instead of the flashy, short-sighted moves usually executed by Americans. Remember, Chinese leaders don't have to worry next "elections".

    Japaneses are hated (maybe too strong a word) by nearly all of their own continent. If I were them, I'd make official excuses for the acts that took place 80 years ago, for which they still didn't presented any. Maybe some compensations as well - they can afford it. It's Japan.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  15. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    Oh, but you will have to get used to it. In fact, you already are: Both of your main "contestants", China and Russia, can also reach America with nukes, for quite some time now. You too can reach them. Mutually assured destruction - it's the way of the future. It works, too; Look at how civil you are when dealing with China.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  16. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Of course. You can bet that they have multiple high ranking officers in the military answering directly to them. They were protecting Kim's brother because it gives them options and leverage.

    Simply not true. Not wanting something isn't a binary matter. The Americans didn't want the British, French, and Israelis from seizing the Suez. They weren't about to blast British ships out of the water to prevent it.

    NK acquiring the bomb is concerning to China on a number of levels, but primarily because it reduces their own leverage over the North Koreans, and secondarily because it's acquisition risks open war between the Americans and North Koreans. The Chinese certainly don't want this.

    All countries follow long-term strategies. The United States isn't concerned about North Korean nuclear weapon acquisition because they're worried Kim is going to nuke them. The United States is concerned because it reduces their leverage over NK, makes the United States looks weak, and increases the draw of nuclear proliferation.

    The Russians are almost as hated in Central Europe. It usually doesn't matter, the Russians and Japanese are too powerful and too potentially helpful to simply ignore or remain antagonistic towards.
     
  17. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    KJU has been sharply reducing the number of Chinese advisors, official or not, inside his governance. It's a little-known fact here, but it represent about the sole incident between the two nations. China does not lose any sleep over NK's nukes, just as Americans don't lose much sleep over Israeli ones, for pretty much the same reasons; Both are protectorates.

    Weird exemple, considering that the US got their way and ended the Suez crisis. That was when the US was a responsible player on the world stage. And IMO, that's what China aims to do for the time being.

    That is, in all respect, an very occidental way to see things. There was risks of open war even before NK had the bomb, for decades. Once again Chinese leaders don't have to cater to the lowest common denominator for next elections' sake, something that favors longer-termed, better tought-out decisions. They don't seek spectacular.

    Not convinced.

     
  18. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    North korea is a different animal than russia or china

    Its far more unstable
     
  19. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    Granted, but you (as the US) are no poster boy for stabililty yourselves.
     
  20. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Stability is one of the United States' most valuable assets. Only one major constitutional crisis in over 200 years. That might be ending this century as Mexican power and influence expand, but the fact that the United States, for the most part, retains a united national identity is remarkable.
     
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  21. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Hardly. The world is full of countries.

    When was your last civil war?
    I bet it was a lot more recently than 200 years.

    When did you wipe out the Red Indians?
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  22. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    Vietnam has triple-canopy jungles, while North Korea does not.
     
  23. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    North Korea's ability to resist is dependent upon a Supply Chain that intact. Air power will be highly effective destroying roads and bridges, and North Korea's barren mountains offer little shelter.
     
  24. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    A damn sight more shelter than their skies offer.

    You'll get arse raped in the skies of North Korea, just as you did last time. North Korea's logistical chain is considerably shorter and more defencable than America's.
    As usual in the air above Korea you will be facing the combined air power of NK plus China plus Russia.

    Don't think planes, think missiles.
     
  25. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    The vast majority of which have national identities more fragile than our own. This is despite massive cultural differences across our country.

    The Constitution isn't my avatar out of some vague sense of nationalistic pride or in celebration of it's intellectual rigor. To me, the Constitution represents a diplomatic masterwork that managed to hold a disparate people together over the course of centuries, even re-asserting itself after half of the country was defeated in a war and made victims of a military occupation by the North.

    Other countries have remarkable unity among them. Japan and Switzerland are fantastic cases, for different reasons. The United States isn't the most united or the most remarkable in it's stability, but of the world's juggernauts it ranks top.

    The UK is a nation on the edge of non-existence, it's binding elements weakening over recent generations.
     

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