False Confessions

Discussion in 'Law & Justice' started by kazenatsu, Feb 2, 2018.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I know most of you are not going to have the time or patience to watch and listen to this but the following is a long 2 hour legal presentation about false confessions.



    How is it that someone can be pushed by police interrogators into making a false confession to a crime they didn't commit? And then on top of that get convicted based on that false confession.

    The police have some clever tricks at being able to extract confessions from suspects. The problem is, sometimes those methods are so clever they end up getting someone to confess when they didn't do the crime. There's a lot of psychological pressure and manipulation that goes on during these interrogation processes.
     
  2. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    The defense? Never, ever talk to police without your attorney present. Always assert your 5th amendment rights. The minute you open your mouth you waive your constitutionally protected rights. Always assume the police are lying to you because that's their #1 tactic.

    When they recite your Miranda rights they tell you anything you say can and WILL be used against you. Believe that because you can be sure it will be used against you.

    It's amazing how many people chirp like birds after they are read their rights.
     
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  3. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Easy - what these government police criminals do to innocents is to force them into an enclosed room and keep them from drinking water or eating a meal. This weakens a person, then the cops give grueling questioning to their victim. Then they proceed to have another government criminal interrogate the victim and try to persuade him that they have all the evidence to prove he is guilty. When the victim asks for a lawyer, the criminals put him into a cell with hardened criminals who are frightfully intimidating and deprive the victim of rest, or of food and drink.

    After all that, they begin the procedure again, sometimes doing the same for 2 or 3 days at a time or longer.

    Of course, right wingers who claim they condemn government abuses know all this. But, somehow, all their arguments about 2d Amendment rights, limited government, and government accountability all go out the window. This further proves that right wingers are hypocrites and are totally unprincipled.
     
  4. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Where are all the comments by the forum's far right radical anti-government Republicans?

    Why aren't they condemning the criminal actions of the criminal police?

    Where is all their talk of limited government and use of 2d Amendment rights to stop these police criminals?

    Will they ever learn to stand up for principle?

    Have the hypocrites gone silent again???
     
  5. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How many police officers are you calling 'criminal'? Of the 1,700,000 active and reserve officers, how many are you claiming are breaking the law (sources to verify your claims)?
     
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  6. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    False confessions are a major problem. On the one hand, police interrogation can quickly solve an open case (let's say a murder). However, that could go horribly wrong if the suspect is innocent, yet TERRIFIED of their surroundings and gets disoriented. Specifically people with severe anxiety or depression.
     
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  7. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    those referenced here and in other writings:

    https://www.innocenceproject.org/causes/false-confessions-admissions/


    and in those not specified but where the facts parallel these situations



    Do you condemn those cops or defend them?
     
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  8. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    since the unprincipled forum right wingers ignored my earlier post, I'll repeat it:


    Where are all the comments by the forum's far right radical anti-government Republicans?

    Why aren't they condemning the criminal actions of the criminal police?




    etc
     
  9. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No where in that source does that at all answer my question that you quoted. The question again was:

    How many police officers are you calling 'criminal'? Of the 1,700,000 active and reserve officers, how many are you claiming are breaking the law (sources to verify your claims)?
     
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  10. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    No one can answer that question but obviously too many are breaking the law and too many are doing it with impunity.
     
  11. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Interrogations are very difficult. I've never conducted any with the civilian population, but I know there are difficulties. I was sent to a LEO forum on investigative studies back when I was trying to compete for a slot of Army CID (I didn't end up finishing the process as they closed that particular slot).

    At this forum I talked to a veteran detective from Charleston, SC. He was an advocate against false confessions. He held certain counter-measures to ensure his department was not coercing an innocent person to confess.

    He realized after watching countless hours of interrogation videos, that many false confessions were not the fault of the officers. A few in particular had many similarities. The detectives were asking perfectly normal questions about their whereabouts and alibi. The suspects (all different cases) all had SEVERE anxiety or depression. They had small attacks and were not thinking clearly at all. They admitted guilt because their mind was blank through sheer terror of a panic attack for merely being in the room with the officers.

    He trained his officers to pick up on telling signs of panic attacks.

    I'll give this a google and see if I can find you the whole story. LEOs take this seriously.
     
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  12. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    That definitely makes a lot of sense. Being interrogated by police is certainly traumatic for many and can lead to misleading or false statements by the one being interrogated, regardless of guilt or innocence.

    It's not always obvious and I'm sure the signs are not always visible.

    Some do. Others abuse the interrogation process, some criminally, to try to extract a "confession". Almost all interrogations begin with the premise that the one being interrogated committed or is complicit in a crime (guilty unless and until proven innocent). So the interrogator(s) are biased from the start.
     
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  13. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The interrogator (if he or she is doing this properly) must play devil's advocate. Suspects often take offense to that, but it's the best way to find inconsistencies, or to confirm the suspect's story.

    I don't think there are many that enjoy, or intentionally want to place charges on an innocent person. If it were me, I'd want to make sure 100% that I had the right person or I'd be in some deep trouble.
     
  14. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    It's impossible to globalize but if an interrogator always begins with the premise that the person being interrogated committed a crime, it doesn't matter what the interrogator's enjoyment or want is. The interrogation is already biased from the start. I understand it may be a necessary part of an interrogation but it is what it is.

    Prosecutors operate under the same premise and many are hell bent on getting a guilty verdict regardless of the accused's guilt or innocence.

    Well it's not you or I and neither one of us is in that business.
     
  15. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Interrogators are specifically trained in unconscious bias, and to not assume the suspect is guilty. It many times comes off that way because they must play devil's advocate.
     
  16. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    How many?

    If it is an actual number that you are looking for, I cannot help you because the vast majority of police who committed these crimes is unknown. We don't even know which were the specific racist white cops who are responsible for the "Wilding" incident. How then do you put a number on that???
     
  17. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You don't want to venture a guess because the number in reality is going to be .00009% of all cops, or something small like that.
     
  18. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    excellent book on Philadelphia police corruption:


    [​IMG]



    the writers give several instances of corrupt cops who force innocent people to confess to crimes they never committed - any real patriot will call for the punishment of those criminal cops
     
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  19. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    yeah but if that was YOU or a loved one who was the victim, you wouldn't be so tolerant of such police crimes
     
  20. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Serpico:

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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  22. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Study finds police officers arrested 1,100 times per year, or 3 per day, nationwide


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-arrested-nationwide/?utm_term=.b7f0ef6d2311




    "“Police crimes are not uncommon,” Stinson concluded. “Our data directly contradicts some of the prevailing assumptions and the proposition that only a small group of rotten apples perpetrate the vast majority of police crime.” ""



    And how many times over the years have heard of stories of cops engaged in drunken brawls in taverns or in other public situations such as drunk driving - when other cops come along and discover that the brawler or drunk driver is a cop, they let them go rather than arrest them. If those crooks were arrested as they should be, the numbers would go up dramatically.
     
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  23. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    I find it strange that the courts allow police in the US to lie to suspects. In my jurisdiction any evidence obtained from a lie would be inadmissible unless there were some very good reasons for the judge to allow the evidence to be put to the jury.

    Also admissions are basically bullshit in terms of evidence. If a cop is relying on admissions then they haven't done their job as an investigator. The last thing you should be doing during a regular investigation is interviewing the suspect. You don't ask them questions out of curiosity. You want them to either tell the truth which fits with your evidence or you want them to lie, either one is fine. An admission is only hearsay evidence after all. Not sure about what happens in the States but where I am an interview must be video recorded or at the very least sound recorded, the old typed out interview won't fly here nowadays due to so much abuse by police in the past.
     
  24. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Police are also trained to follow the law, so much for that. Even a cop who's trained in "unconscious bias" is likely to eventually turn it into conscious bias when that bias is acted on with every interrogation.
     
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  25. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Very VERY small percentage of the 1,700,000 LEOs are not following the law. Don't over exaggerate. It steers this to an irrational conversation. Even fewer exercise their bias in interrogation ESPECIALLY because all interrogations are recorded.
     
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