The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Greatest I am, Apr 6, 2018.

  1. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?

    A nutshell view of Gnostic Christianity is expressed in the first two links. The third shows the attitude and result of Christian and Gnostic Christian interaction. I should point out that Gnostic Christianity does not hold to any supernatural belief, although I know that the literature, mostly written by those who won the God wars, wants to show that we do. Our myths have a lot of supernatural entities but they are myths, not reality.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&t=3s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ptNcSYo7k4&t=338s

    I heard the saying in the title of this O. P. some time ago and after looking at the moral aspects of both ideologies/ theologies; --- I think that statement to be true from a moral point of view.

    Do you?

    Regards
    DL
     
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  2. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    What if they posted a thread, and nobody came ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
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  3. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Answer mine and I will answer yours.

    Or are you not able to judge the two groups for moral merit?

    Regards
    DL
     
  4. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    It is mostly easy, almost trivial, to show that pretty much anyone is the only good person if that person themselves are allowed to dictate the criteria by which they are judged.

    Would you mind summarising the points of the links you've provided?
     
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  5. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I consider myself a Gnostic Christian...
    but I believe in all kinds and types of miraculous events.....

    I don't think that I am better than other Christians that I know.....
    but I might be somewhat more well informed than most....

    The following book could make something of a Gnostic out of many readers.....

    https://books.google.ca/books/about/The_Thomas_Book.html?id=kbiGjKJl4D4C

     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
  6. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    That goes without saying.

    Tough to do.

    The first explains in detail what these quotes say.

    Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

    John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

    Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    These basically say that you can have the mind of Christ and be your own Christ and can retire God by taking the judgement seat the way Jesus is said to have done.

    IOW, you can step up to being the true child of God that you can be. All without putting your mind and morals into intellectual dissonance the way Christians have to do.

    The second link shows the birth of Inquisitions when Christians became idol worshipers and started killing off any who did not follow their immoral creed.

    The third shows how the Cathars lived and why the Christians used their Inquisition on them.

    I am asking if it was moral for Christianity to grow by murder instead of good moral arguments.

    Regards
    DL
     
  7. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Then you are not a Gnostic Christian as we do not believe in anything supernatural.

    We still think the way these more intelligent seekers did before Christianity became an idol worshiping cult.

    http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

    A lot brighter than supernatural beliefs. No?

    Regards
    DL
     
  8. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    In the broadest sense it seems a sort of Christian Taoism, yes? I've also heard it called Zen Jesus, is that right? It had a big time following in the Middle Ages, particularly in the Byzantine Empire where the Church of Hagia Sophia does NOT mean St. Sophia but the Church of the Holy Wisdom. Problem is it gets all tangled up with the Iconoclasts and STILL seems to think religion is all about fighting the Emperor's wars, tithing and never, ever having sex so what's the difference?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
  9. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Most of the wisdom and knowledge seeking religions have similar ideologies. For instance, they all preach that fasting is a good way to activate our pineal gland and our full mind.

    The Jesus, as a good man archetype, is found in may of the older traditions that pre-dated Christianity.





    Even the Egyptians have a virgin birth etc.

    I think there is about 6 of those that pre-dated Jesus of the bible.

    Regards
    DL
     
  10. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    Gnostic Christians... well, I cannot contribute much to the conversation except to point out that Gnostic Christians fascinate me as one who reads religious texts. The Gnostic Gospels are part of the New Testament Apocrypha (which is not accepted by any current Christian denomination as cannon). I've also been told once that Mary Baker Eddy's Christian Science is a form of Gnosticism. Fancy reading Science and Health?
     
  11. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    There have been a number of Gnostic Christian look alike religions that have popped up.

    Most failed because, I think, of the bad taste that the mainstream religions have left in peoples mouths. Since people are mostly just appeasing their tribal natures and fears of death or insecurity with their religion, the bigger the tribe the better.

    I see that as a shame as smaller local churches do most of the social work that is what communities need.

    Regards
    DL
     
  12. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    I would take it a step farther. I would say that the only REAL Christian is a Gnostic / Mystic Christian. The rest are caught up in worldly principles.
     
  13. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    What can I say.

    Close enough to ------



    Regards
    DL
     
  14. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Where, or from whom, did you get your Gnostic Christian education and info from?

    Elaine Pagels got me started.

    Regards
    DL
     
  15. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Religious Gnosticism is an explanation, nothing more. It is neither true nor false. And any who believe they are The Blessed are goofy.
     
  16. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    "strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

    Most people cannot "hear". I refer to probably 95% of those who consider themselves to be Christian.
     
  17. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Gnostics are afraid of the flesh, and I have been told they make awful lovers.
     
  18. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    A friend from back in high school days one day became a "born again Christian" and started preaching to me. I was about 40 and an agnostic/atheist. I knew intuitively that he was wrong in what he believed the Bible meant and said. So I began reading the Bible and meditating on the words. I noticed some things that normally go unnoticed, and I went to bookstores to see if there was anything that was about what I had found. A book almost leaped off the shelf. I was drawn to it like a magnet. I remember the experience but I no longer remember the book as there have been many that followed. But most of all I became aware of the early monastic tradition of contemplation.... -what we would call "meditation" today. So I practiced it as best I could. And I began having whole, complete, detailed understandings of Bible passages that were previously mysteries to me just fall into my mind. There was no process of development. There was no evolution of the ideas. One minute all I had was a mystery, and the next minute I had a full, detailed understanding.

    So I began reading The Christian mystics and some time later something told me to look into Hinduism. I was shocked at the similarities.

    As I said, it's hard to say what got me started on the mystical path. I think I was on it from the time my friend began preaching to me. But Meister Eckhart and Mme.Jeanne Guyon's "Experiencing the Depth of Jesus Christ" were significant.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
  19. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    I did not ask if it was true or false. I was asking more if, from the information given, if it was good as compared to Christianity.

    Can you judge and answer that?

    Regards
    DL
     
  20. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    The OP is "the only good christian is a gnostic christian true or false"?. A gnostic can't be a Christian, I think.
     
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  21. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Interesting.

    I would love to see you compare some of your findings to this guy's. Let me give you two examples. One on Jesus and the other on our brains.





    I know they are rather long, but I want to see what you think of his allegorical or esoteric ecumenist thinking. I understand if you do not have the time.

    Regards
    DL
     
  22. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Many religions, from what I can see, can and do have a Gnostic side even if they do not name it so. Hell, there is even a Gnostic Muslim sect and in Muslims Majority countries they even kill their apostates.

    That aside, if you feel you cannot evaluate the two cults in the O.P. as to their moral worth, then I guess we are done.

    Regards
    DL
     
  23. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    JakeStarkey said: The OP is "the only good christian is a gnostic christian true or false"?. A gnostic can't be a Christian, I think.
    Readers know what I wrote, so I spit out the words you try to put in my mouth. Christ triumphed over mortality, GreatestIam, which means He triumphed over the flesh. He is real.
     
  24. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Show evidence and or proof or be seen as a liar.

    Regards
    DL
     
  25. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    JakeStarkey said: The OP is "the only good christian is a gnostic christian true or false"?. A gnostic can't be a Christian, I think.
    Readers know what I wrote, so I spit out the words you try to put in my mouth. Christ triumphed over mortality, GreatestIam, which means He triumphed over the flesh. He is real.
    All gnostics are born liars before the foundation of the world. I am glad you exposed yourself so early.
     

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