Can you be liberal and Christian at the same time?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Spooky, May 23, 2018.

  1. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Jesus didn't comment on government policy. The absence of his advice on government can't be construed as a suggestion that there be no government.

    The Bible DOES address this issue where there ARE comments on requirements of citizens, as in Deuteronomy 15.

    The rich are require to loan to the poor. On the day of forgiveness, those loans not repaid are forgiven.

    In essence, the government of the Israelites required a direct transfer of wealth.
     
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  2. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    I never mentioned no government, but nice try
     
  3. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    [
    Did he tell anyone to forcibly take rich people's money?
     
  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Well, when you mentioned that Jesus didn't tell his guys to take people's money, I assumed you were referring to some sort of legal process.

    I think we can all agree Jesus wouldn't have promoted a mugging.
     
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  5. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    I do like pointing out errors in ideological thinking (in this case as presented by Giftedone, who claimed that Utilitarianism has "zero concern for the rights of the individual")

    eg, the concept of "liberty of the individual" must be subject to definition in relation to the liberty of other individuals, when there is more than one individual in the world.
     
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  6. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    I already said, "no" I could not find such a teaching.

    But Jesus did say "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars' and unto God the thing that are God's ", indicating acceptance of taxation levied by earthly authorities.
     
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  7. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Where does it say that you should ask your rulers to levy heavier taxes on those with more than you, or think that's proper?
     
  8. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Government is simply the surrogate for the mob that seems obsessed with everybody else's posessions. In exchange for their vote, the government does the mugging, enriches and empowers itself, and sprinkles back crumbs on the willful little recipients.
    The first story in the Bible outside of Eden speaks of a man who is jealous of what his brothers has accomplished. Pretty much sums up human nature
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You know, our government isn't based on the bible. It's based on years of secular advancement in government. In fact, the advances our own government demonstrates did not come from the bible. One might note that one of the larger steps in the evolution of our government was the separation of government from religion.

    So, I'm not so sure that it means much of anything if something our government does isn't based on some verse in the bible.
     
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  10. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    .

    Is that so?

    "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America".

    "The greatest good for the greatest number" is not necessarily incompatible with individual liberty - that's a false dichotomy.

    Actually Utilitarianism depends on Rule of Law.

    Again you are defining concepts, eg Rule of Law, to fit your own world view. Rule of law exists to promote well-ordered relations between naturally self-interested individuals, in order to avoid anarchy - a much larger concern than the mere avoidance of unjust punishment of the individual.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  11. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    I'm quite aware of the problem. I asked for your solution, not your opinion on who is to blame for the problem.

    (Hint: reducing taxation on the rich will not in itself solve growing inequality, or help eradicate poverty, or indeed help you to buy a house).
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    [/QUOTE]
    We can certainly have very bad governments. But, your first paragraph certainly does not describe America.
     
  13. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    As the concept is applied by liberals, it drains the resources of producers and debilitates the recipients, making it that much harder for them to become "enfranchised". Isn't that enough?
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
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  14. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The reason prices are high in these places is that large numbers of people want to live there.

    It's simple economics. When demand is high and the quantity is fixed (as in real estate), the price is going to go up.

    The problem you are pointing to is that people REALLY REALLY want to live in those places you mention - enough that they are willing to out bid others.

    If everyone wanted to live in Wyoming, the price would be high there, too.
     
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  15. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Oh really?
    We haven't petitioned our government to take with a more heavily weighted hand from those with more, and our politicians haven't become entrenched in power and wealth?
     
  16. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Dude - it is not a "False Dichotomy" If you want to call "False Dichotomy" then it is up to you to explain why ... and you have not done so.

    Just because the Rule of law exists to promote X ... does not mean Utilitarianism depends on the rule of Law and nor does it mean that Utilitarianism does not violate the rule of law.

    Just because a carnival can be considered to promote happiness ... does not mean that all things that promote happiness (drugs for example, or good food, or pornography) depend on the carnival. Non Sequitur - "it does not follow"

    Utilitarianism - by definition - does not consider individual rights and freedoms- in its justification for law. The key word being "individual" It looks only at what will increase happiness for the collective - the community as a whole. Utilitarianism does not concern itself with the rights in general - and certainly not the rights of the individual.
     
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  17. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    The concentration of wealth is based on government granted priviledge and the financialization of the economy by the FED acting on behalf of the finance class.
    Our progressive tax code has little to do with it and only makes it difficult for you to accumulate wealth yourself.
     
  18. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Duh, the premise of the thread is Jesus is a liberal and would advocate taking from the rich. I didn't start the stupid ****ing thread with the stupid ****ing premise
     
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  19. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    I think you are confusing liberalism with atheism. They are not the same thing.
     
  20. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    True, not all liberals are atheists, but 99% of the atheists I meet are liberals.
     
  21. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    I don't need a solution, it's only rich liberals who snivel about "income inequality".
     
  22. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    That even if that's true, it's irrelevent to out conversation. You stated the fact that liberals talk about Jesus confuses you cause liberals do not beleive in Jesus, insinuating that all liberals are atheists, which is BS. There are alot of liberal Christians.
     
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  23. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    Safety nets are not hated. Wasting money is hated. Anybody who knows anything about Christianity at all knows that he who receives unworthily will pay a penalty for it on the last day. The same Christ who taught about charity also taught against greed. For some reason you evidently think only rich people are greedy, it's not so.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  24. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    The reason prices are high is that taxes are through the roof.
     
  25. ThelmaMay

    ThelmaMay Well-Known Member

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    Why are you so worried about this? Are you rich? Why do you defend the rich? The avaricious?

    I would think a truly wealthy person would have better things to do than spend time on a message board like this. Travel the world? Spend a lot of time managing your financial empire?
     
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