What are Liberal's position on higher corporate taxes causing business to move overseas?

Discussion in 'Budget & Taxes' started by kazenatsu, Feb 22, 2018.

  1. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Trump thinks business can be managed politically. But HD and other businesses over the decades are making hard and calculated and long-term decisions about how to best manage their businesses. This would be dumbfounding to Trump since he has never given thought to what's in the best long-term interest of the USA. Like it or not the USA functions in a global marketplace and there are pros and cons with this, one of them being US companies need to compete with other companies, and resources, around the world. Outsourcing or foreign facilities are just options today for businesses to meet their goals. Instead of Trump HATE-tweeting HD, and others, a novel idea would be for the USA to focus on creating the best possible atmosphere for business operations...
     
  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So, you STILL didn't understand what I have been repeating to you over and over again.

    Maybe I'll just keep repeating it until you understand.


    Like I have already explained to you, it doesn't matter whether it's the same corporation.

    No they don't. Corporations overseas that manufacture things that later get sold in American markets don't have the same tax codes.

    Why do you hate tariffs? Tariffs would just be used to equalize taxation, so that a corporation overseas manufacturing things that get sold in American markets would pay the same tax on what they manufacture as a corporation in America that manufactures those things.

    The problem is American businesses are in competition with businesses which are not subject to US tax law.

    Even if that corporation is not actually directly the one selling to the US, they're still getting money from US markets. It's just going through an intermediary.

    The fact that intermediary may be paying US taxes is mostly irrelevant, because that intermediary corporation's profits are only a fraction of the profits made on manufacturing that item.


    You're brain is failing to make some connections here. Think about it a little more.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  3. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Provide a US company and a foreign company name who are not subject to applicable US tax laws when doing business in the USA?
     
  4. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    taxes were higher decades ago and businesses did not export their jobs overseas like they do today thanks to the change in tax laws which allow them to do so without losing money
     
  5. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    It necessarily goes pear shaped when you attack labour rights. Before that, long term contracting is perferred. That engineers investment and competition according to productivity. The US gave up on that sense and said "seek short term profit". Not surprisingly, that generates a rtace to the bottom.
     
  6. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Great, then you don't have any problem with tariffs being placed on products that were not manufactured by a company subject to US taxes on their profits?
     
  7. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    What did corporations, who got tax breaks and were allowed to repatriate overseas profits at reduced rates, just do with their windfall???They bought back their companies, stock reducing the number of available shares and driving up the share value, while increasing their own and investors wealth.The rich got richer and the working class got the shaft.
     
  8. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Agreed, but I would say by the consumer, not by the employer.
    The employer obviously can't pay them more if he's competing with competitors who are paying their workers less.

    You're confusing market price (which is affected by factors of supply and demand) with worth.

    If you're earning $50K and somebody else steps in willing to do your job for $35K, then all of a sudden you're only "worth" $35K, wouldn't that be right?
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  9. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Don't agree...my worth in the job force is defined by how much I can earn. Ask most workers and they will tell you they are worth much more than they are being paid, and while they might 'think' this, in reality their worth is what they can actually earn. Considering only wages, it's up to the employee to maximize their earnings, their worth, by providing their maximum skills and performance, and seeking out employers who at the moment value that worth...
     
  10. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You could earn more – if you knocked your competition out of the way.

    So what does that mean?

    So by your definition, if minimum wage was increased you'd be worth more (assuming your employer still chose to employ you).
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  11. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    The elite hope that the working classes will turn to the fascists. A little aggro and then, after a snippet of nastiness, a return to consensus politics. Just a rabid episode of 'lets blame foreigners' and they can then maintain the extreme inequalities.
     
  12. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That redistribution of wealth you're hoping for isn't going to do much good if you're bringing in millions of foreigners.
    At best, the rich are just going to be taxed more to pay for all these foreigners.

    We can already see benefit cuts to UK families because the resources are being diverted to non-UK citizens.

    Why do you want to push more businesses overseas with higher taxes and opposing any tariff taxes on imports?
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  13. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    We already know that immigrants are typically net contributors. That fascism keeps missing!
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  14. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then we should keep them in the poor countries to help those parts of the world be able to dig themselves out of poverty.

    Also, how about we place completely separate taxation on immigrants, and the only benefits they'd be allowed to get would have to come from that special tax pool? They don't even have to pay for national defense, all they have to do is pay for their own healthcare and their children's education, and help for those in their group at risk of becoming homeless.
    I'm pretty sure that alone would quickly demonstrate the discrepancy between your thinking and reality.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  15. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    We should allow a WTO that has development as its core aim. No fascism needed!
     
  16. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    People can claim how much they are worth but it's all meaningless unless they can earn those amounts. There are two parts to this here; one part is the wage which a person can obtain and another part is the wage earning potential of that person. If a person with an obscure liberal arts degree is making $30K as a sales person at Macy's, and they don't put forth any effort to increase their earnings, then this basically establishes their worth. But this same person if they put forth the effort to maximize the return on their education and knowledge has the potential to earn more...
     
  17. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You mean encouraging imports of labor products out of Africa instead of natural resources?
     
  18. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Meaning generation of dynamic comparative advantage.
     
  19. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Africa's comparative advantage is the export of its resources.
    Look at what it's gotten their people.
     
  20. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Nope, as shown by how the local populations have been made worse off. Sounds like you don't understand comparative advantage and its inconsistency with mercantilism
     
  21. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That was my point.

    Comparative advantage hasn't benefitted them and has even harmed their economy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
  22. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    You didn't have a point. Comparative advantage, by definition, destroys zero sum games. Trade has not reflected comparative advantage. It has reflected corporate corruption engineered by our multinationals
     
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  23. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would disagree with you, that is an oversimplified theory.

    Presuming from many of your other posts, you agree that inequality can lead to less economic activity. Well, what effect do you think trade can have on inequality (I mean within a country) ?
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
  24. Liberty Monkey

    Liberty Monkey Well-Known Member

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    Print more money.
     
  25. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    There are less than 50% of the number of companies on our stock market today, than there were before the Bushwhackers collapse of our economy in 2007-8.
     
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