Jews And Feminists

Discussion in 'Women's Rights' started by ibshambat, Aug 5, 2018.

  1. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Most of the socialisation is a result of natural difference too since the socialisation is one with nature; gender roles are thus to be regarded as socio-biological. We have basic needs and all "social constructs" fill the purpose of satisfying these needs in orded to maximise the best potential social outcome. "Motherhood" and "fatherhood" are social constructs, but they are natural too, for example.
     
  2. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the one thing women envy men for.
     
  3. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Social constructs are made up. And males are demeaned if they do feminine things.
     
  4. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean when you say "made up"? Pulled out of someone's behind? "Made up" as in they have no connection to reality and no function in society whatsoever? "Made up" as in reality being their opposite? If a "made up" exists, it means there is an original somewhere, what is the original?
     
  5. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Dressing a girl in pink and a boy in blue..made up
    Telling a boy not to cry ...made up
    Giving girls baby dolls and boys trucks..made up
    Assigning roles...made up
    Boys stronger upper body strength....original
    Girls have uteruses..original
    Telling boys not to act like a girl as it’s bad ...made up
    Telling girls tomboys is fine...made up
    Telling boys to hold car doors for girls..made up
    Telling girls to sit and wait to helplessly while a boy opens a car door
    Made up
    Sex for girls...bad
    Sex for boys ...good
     
  6. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    True.

    No one tells boys not to cry, it is just that boys are not as emotionally oriented as are girls.

    This is more evo-psychological than anything; girls, generally, like faces and emotions and boys like spatial toys. The market does not create the demand, it replies to it.

    Assigning roles is necessary to maximise the best possible social outcome. We are social animals that depend on co-operation and therefore we assign roles and many of these roles are actually biologically rooted.

    Exactly - This is why women were assigned the role of "mothership" whereas men were assigned the role of "money bringers".

    It is actually bad for boys to act like the gender they are not. Women like men and if men acted like women, we would have no reproduction.

    Are you saying it is not fine? :D

    Just because it is made up does not mean it is irrelevant or stupid. Chivalry is good and should be encouraged.

    You explained the reason for this yourself above; women get pregnant and it isthus more risky for them to have sex. However, what you mention above does not describe the contemporary view on sex very well. Today, women are actually encouraged to sleep around as much as possible as it is presented as "empowering" and "liberating".

    A vast majority of the social constructs are constructed in the social interaction with reality - Throughout our entire evolution, we have been forced to adapt ourselves to the demands of nature and the challenges the environment puts us through. Ever since we started building civilisations and communities, we have been dependent on strict roles for our survival.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2018
  7. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    I see you bought right into socialization.
    Little,boys cry just as much as little girls..but they are told at a very eealry age ” boys don’t cry” That is purely socialization. Men are taught not to show emotions and internalize and that is one of the reasons they die younger and get ulcers etc.
    NExt toys...toys are socialization. Little boys are given violent dolls and girls are giving loving dolls. Boys are discouraged from playing with a baby doll, nothing to do with spatial relations, but disdain for what girls do. Boys like to cook, but they played with their sisters toys stoves . Girls were given sewing kits boys were discouraged. Don’t men need to know how to sew?
    How ridiculous because boys have stronger upper body strength they should be money earners. Yes, my husband needed those muscles on Wall st lol...
    Chivalry is fine when it’s gender neutral. Women are capable of opening their own doors and for the person behind her. Women are socialized to be passive and let men do the asking out, paying etc. men like doing and like women to be passive .I like men opening the door for me, especially if it’s to the Board room
    Where did you hear women are encouraged to sleep around? Another extremist attitude?
    Not all Women want to sit at home and wait for a man to take care of them anymore. We have that option, I stayed home for three years and depended on my husband to support me and then I went to work teaching and fulfilling my education and my passion. Colleges and medical schools are now predominantly women. Times are changing and I suggest you get with them
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2018
  8. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Not entirely true. At a certain age, all kids are told to "stop acting like babies". Boys do not cry for nothing because they are boys. I know this bothers you, but not everyone is alike.

    Men do show emotions, they are human too. However, men express their feelings differently from women. And where the heck is the connection between not crying to Titanic and dying and getting ulcers?

    Not true. There is a reason dolls are labelled "girl toys" and action figures are labelled "boy toys" and that is the very simple fact that the average girl prefers dollies whereas the average boy preferes toy soldiers. This has very much to do with gendered brain differences.

    Nothing girly about cooking.

    And boys were taught how to saw and how to use a hammer. If men hammer and women sew, the household's division of labour is complete. ;)

    You have to think a little more. I am sure you will eventually get it. Hint: Think pre-modern and pre-industrialised society.

    Do you really hate your own gender this much?

    If you work yourself up there, I am sure they will do so.

    Women's magasines, Hollywood films, lyrical content of modern pop, the content in music videos and from their Gender Studies professors.

    I never said anyone has to do anything, so I don't see where all these personal anecdotes are coming from.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
  9. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    1-Oh get a reality grip. Boys are told early on that men don’t cry. Girls aren’t told girls shouldn’t cry. Crying makes boys “sissies l you’re being disingenuous

    2 Men internalize when they are sad, angry etc ..they don’t cry, they hide emotion and internalizing it affects their physical health . Women are free to cry and the cathartic results lead to longer life spans

    3- wow you really don’t get it! Labeling boys toys and girls toys is the epitome of socialization. Since being “like a girl “ is negative, boys won’t play with girls toys. An example is a doctors kit and a nursing kit had the same things . Boys wouldn’t buy a nurses kit, but girls would buy a doctors kit. Boys don’t play with dolls because “girls do” but girls will play with boys toys. one of my eighth grade boys pointed out “, what boys do has more value” it wasn’t said in anyway other than a realization. He pointed out that he would love to jump rope outside like the girls do but he wouldn’t because he would be made fun of.

    4- that’s a change I fought for...cooking for boys. Not long ago girls took cooking and sewing and boys took all the other shops. I fought for them all to be coed and I also made the library stop saying boys books and girls books.
    Are you also aware that the fine culinary schools used to be for men only and denied women access?

    5x yes I really hate my gender because I have the audacity to open y own door and for the person behind me. I must really hate my gender because I think women don’t have to be passive to make insecure men feel macho. Which goes to the next ridiculous statement that you believe that if women sew and men saw...that’s equality. They should both be able to do both.

    6 so women are encouraged to sleep around? I don’t notice that. I do notice women are sexual just like men are
     
  10. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Even if there is a tiny pinch of a sociological explanation to this matter, the biggest part of it is biological; men and women have different levels of "cry hormones" and men and women are emotionally different. Men do get upset and sad, but it just does not make them cry.

    Men don't hide their emotions at all. The issue you have is that you think men and women are the same and therefore expect men do be like women. This is a very common mistake female kindergarten-teachers do with little boys too. And, when men actually do show emotion, it is labelled as "toxic masculimity".

    This has little to nothing to do with nurture and everything to do with nature - boys and girls are different and have different preferences and the toy manufractors respond to these different preferences. Girls probably like to play nurse for the same reasons women choose to work as nurses, they get to take care of and talk to people. Boys don't play with girls' toys because it is friggen gay! :D Most girls would never touch a toy gun or an action figure either, so it is not really true that "girls play with boys' toys". As for the jump rope-anecdote, I highly question its validity since girls in the 8th grade are not jumping rope outside.

    I just pointed out that there is nothing girly about cooking, didn't I?

    You have an amazingly hard time understanding figurative speech and putting concepts into a historical perspective. Yes, in an industrialised, equal,high-tech society like ours, men and women should be able to choose their own field and this is exactly the case today, but - interestingly enough - men and women choose even more gender stereotypical professions the more equal their country is and this really shows there is more than just socialisation to gender and gender roles.

    Then you are just incredibly ignorant.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2018
  11. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Wow..this is fodder for my course.
    Isn’t it interesting that the “crying hormones” kick in at the same time daddy says “boys don’t cry . It’s socialization! They channel their emotions more aggressively instead especially when taking away a a little,boy doll and giving him a killer joe doll. We don’t encourage boys to play “daddy”
    I am not saying boys and girls are the same, but we deny boys their “softer side” while encouraging girls to be both.
    But you proved a point I always make in class when you said a boy playing with a doll is frigging gay! You’re a femiphobe. Playing with a doll does not make a little boy a homosexual. What you are saying is if he does what girls do they are gay.....no, it is is your dislike for females and anything they do. How come when a little girl plays with the truck or wants to plays sports we don’t accuse her of being a Lesbian? Why would a boy playing daddy make him a lfriggin gay “ it’s femiphobia....And the stupid conclusion that if they do what girls do they must be gay. It’s not about homosexuality it’s about misogyny
    Ps. 6th grade girls double Dutch jump rope and the boys love to join in....but they wouldn’t dare own the ropes

    You reposnse makes the point about cooking. At one time a man wouldn’t be caught dead doing the cooking at home that was woman’s work. At one time cooking and sewing classes were only for girls. The fact that you see nothing girly about cooking shows changes.....and there are more. You’re much younger so you take things for granted that I fought for

    You are right about gender occupations, ..and again socialization has done that. Years ago, girls were nurses and men were doctors .now med schools are mostly women. Did their genes suddenly change? Girls are getting sports scholarships, did their genes suddenly change? Many more men are going in for teaching and nursing..did their genes change?

    I am incredibly ignorant because I think women are as sexual as men? Again socialization. Why are women who are sexual called sluts? Tramps? Easy? Loose?
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2018
  12. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Cheers, mate.

    No, you cannot socialise away biology, in fact socialisation always has to interact with biology to work and this is how all our sociological phenomenons have come to life - We have basic needs that we have to satisfy and to help us do that, we create culture.

    Boys, generally, do not want to play daddy because boys do not like to play in the same ways as do girls. I understand that it is hard for a woman who is a Feminist to grasp this very simple fact as it demolishes your entire ideology. But, that's just how it is.

    These differences in how we treat sons and daughters have grown from a reality where boys and girls are not the same. Socialisation is a response to the biological challenges we are put against.

    I see you do not understand sarcasm even when it is clearly highlighted with an emoji. I also see that you are making up new words and accusing me for being something I am not. It is absolutely disgusting to see someone who makes up diagnoses they can hand out to anyone who disagrees in hopes of it silencing them or, at least, hoping the pathologisation of the opponent will make them appear as sick and stupid to outsiders. Very dishonest, to say the least.

    It is also interesting how you note a social phenomena you perceive as being malevolent to boys, but you somehow manage to twist and turn it to still be a scenario where girls are the victims and misogyny is the cause.

    Yeah, but you said 8th graders.

    As technology advanced, people found they had more time to focus on other things than just surviving. Gender roles are not as strict in civilised societies and people have more individual freedom to choose their own field of specialisation. However, despite this reality, men and women are actually much more gender stereotypical in their career choices in the civilised societies that offer everyone the oppurtunity to break free from their gender role-chains. Teaching and nursing is still dominated by women. During my time in kindergarten I had zero male teachers, from 1st grade to finishing high school, I had - on tops - 10 male teachers. Men are simply not as attracted to teaching as are women, at least not when education looks the way it does today (overly feminine and anti-reason).

    In what world and age are you living? Wherever you turn your head, you see a media that encourages free sex for women, presenting it as being "liberating and empowering", wherever you turn your ears, you hear voices that talk about how wonderful it is to "explore one's sexuality" and how awesome it would be if contraceptives were free. If anything, it is women who get marrief, women who have children and/or women who are virgins that are being shamed, slandered and stigmatised.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2018
  13. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    I taught middle school grades 6-8 they all love double Dutch
    Yes there are biological differences.but you want to pretend that we don’t discourage boys from doing girls things and I am wasting my time, studies have shown little boys like to play with girls toys and then they’re are discouraged. So many boys would tell me how they loved o,aging with their sisters toys..why didn’t they have those toys?
    No it’s not hard for a Demi it’s to understand boys don’t want to play daddy.....funny they do until the pressure not to starts, wouldn’t it be great if we encouraged boys to play daddy’s, so they would be comfortable in the role?
    The reason men aren’t I. Teaching and nursing is because they were female Dominated profession is in there for work paid very little. Now a nurse practitioner makes over $100,000 and teachers are earning more and more and guess what we now have many more males in these professions. We lose a lot of males in teaching because they don’t pay well but it has nothing to do with their abilities. Men are just as capable of being a great teacher as women are. And men are capable of being great parents
    Tell me about all this empowerment you see. Are men called whores and sluts? Women are being empowered, we aren’t waiting for marriage and we’re demanding good sex as well and that threatens a lot of men
    It isn’t women who are shamed for being virgins, you know damn well who are virgins
    I will not sink to your personal attacks , I’ll leave that childish debate method to you
     
  14. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    I will take it you are typing on your phone since this post is very poorly structured and , at times, very hard to follow and comprehend, but I will do my best to address the points you have tried to raise. Without further ado, here we go.

    All of them? I find that very hard to believe. I, myself, am highly uncoordinated and therefore always hated jump ropes. Anyways, middle school is usually the age where children stop playing and since my 8th grade experience certainly lies closer in time than yours, it is with vivid memory and clear certainty that I tell you that no 8th graders are outside jumping rope during break.

    Any parent who tries to dictate their child's play is an awful parent who will ruin the child's beautiful imagination and natural curiousity. If a boy wants a doll, he should be allowed to have one, but forcing him to have one in the name of "gender neutrality" or expecting him to play with it like a girl is pure evil. The general trend, however, is - has always been and will always be - that children prefer gendered toys regardless of socialisation.

    Me and my friend used to steal his sister's.Barbies for our action figure dramas. Although we did use girls' toys, I assure you we were not playing house with them. ;)

    Ask their parents.

    It is impossible to understand anything but the last part of this post (I am prepared to give you a chance to rephrase it), so I will only respond to that by saying that it is very interesting that someone who is so openly anti-family all of a sudden cares about fatherhood.

    I am sorry, but I did not understand one single word of whatever it is you are trying to say here. And I am not saying this to be prick, it really is impossible to decode your message.

    Quite frankly, it is the direct opposite of what you think. You are a married woman, right? I guess the view from the ivory tower isn't that geeat. Young, single women of today are not "demanding good sex", they are told it is good to have no standards and just pick any ****** at the club since whatever their choice is, an one-night-stand is a manifestation of independence and strenght. Young, single women who are having, what you call, "good sex" are drugged down both on contraceptives and on alcohol in all of their sexual intercourses. Young, single women who have many sexual partners are no longer called "sluts" by anyone except for, maybe, a backstabbing friend. The young women who are questioned the hardest today are the ones that choose to get married in their 20's.

    Can't understand what you are trying to say here.

    Now, wait a minute! I am the one doing personal attacks? Where? You were the.one calling me names such as "femiphobe" and what not. Projection much?
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
  15. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, not all kids love double Dutch...to the average person it would be figurative speech, not literal. Sorry, thought you’d realize that and wouldn’t need a wordy explanation. All dogs don’t bark either
    Who said they were outside during break.
    . Where I taught there were no breaks during school hours...but we had a courtyard where kids played before and after school with supervision,

    You are so hypocritical...you Make “jokes” about guys who play with girls things as gay, so don’t go blaming parents who will meet people like you making those “jokes”.. One mother and one of my groups pointed that out. She said she would love to give her son a doll but she knows he will be made fun of. Once again socialization

    Sorry you couldn’t understand a word of what I was saying. I will simplify it. More men are going into nursing and teaching because they are now paying more. A nurse practitioner earns over $100,000.

    My ivory tower cause I am married? Obviously you think you know about women’s sexuality....and my guess is you’re not very experienced. The fact that you see women’s sex as having no standards and getting drunk and going to clubs shows your attitude to women. I was a single woman during the sexual revolution and they stop putting out books on how to please men sexually and instead women cared about their own sexual satisfaction..women aren’t called sluts? Look at what they’re doing to any woman who reports sexual abuse....like dr Ford.

    You sure are quick to blame parents for choosing toys for their hildren. But you are talking like an extremist when you say that a parent who forces a boy to play like a girl is “evil” playing with a doll pretending he is a parent is not evil. But then again you don’t like when I use the word femi phobia..I’ve never met a parent who forced a kid to act a certain way when playing unless of course perhaps when it involves violence because in my world violence is evil... not being a loving parent
     
  16. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    8th graders are teenagers and no teenager would ever play anything except for, maybe, basketball on the schoolyard. Jump ropes are not even feminine in themselves, a lot of mega-masculine athletes jump rope in their training routines, but they become feminine when you add some silly rhymes to go with it.

    She would love to give him a doll or he would love to have one? There is a huge difference between the two.

    Here in Sweden, nursing and teaching are still State monopolies and therefore pay terribly. Although a high salary will increase the status of a given profession, which in turn will have more people going into it, it is not certain that it will give it a more equal gender ratio - Constructing and working on oil rinks pay very well, but still we see very few women in those fields. The reason men are not interested in careers within nursing is partially due to the low pay, but mostly about men not being interested in working with small children (this is why there are more male high school-teachers than male elementary-teachers) and because the profession has become increasingly less free and more about emotional cutesy-cuddley bs than about logic and education.

    And there goes the personal attacks again. You are not young and you do not know how the modern "dating scene" looks.

    She is not being "slut shamed". She is being called a liar, which she most likely is.

    You are not a man and you have never been a little boy. All you know about children is your own experiences of being a little girl, reading what female "experts" - whom never been boys either - have to say about it, by talking to mothers (who never were boys) and by talking to your Radical Feminist, female collegues in the lunchroom. Heck, you probably even only have daughters. I will tell you this; boys do not like to play parent, just get over it and accept truth for what it is. Boys prefer different kinds of games and toys because boys are not girls. You are a mascuphobe!

    Why is it so important to you and your allies that boys dress in pink and paint their nails anyways?
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
  17. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Remind me to tell the kids having so much fun double dutching that they are too old. Most are around 12but the older ones join in...have for years. Guys jumping rope is cool if it’s for excerxise ...and they love double Dutch , it’s quite a skill. One boy said ,”we love it” and I said I will believe they love it enough when they initiate the game. Why do you suppose they line up to try it when the girls do it? They don’t rhyme, they count

    Didn’t realize that nurses only work with small children. Interesting we have so many male pediatricians

    Stating my opinion that you are unaware of women’s sexuality is not a personal attack...it is an opinion based on what you write.

    Please do not tell me that when a woman accuses a man of sexual abuse, they don’t slut shame her,..interesting that you use that term, we don’t slut shame men, do we?

    I totally agree with you that boys and girls like different games....and I tell you that a huge percentage is socialization.
    By the way I have been a confidante to thousands of boys over the years I taught sex ed. They journaled to me weekly, and I would respond to them
    I have to laugh at your misogyny when you describe my colleagues as radical feminist females. I guess that’s suppose to be a sophomoric dig, I have to tell that to the guys we sit with ..although most of them are feminists by definition , not afraid of strong women

    I think you’re losing it when you say such stupid things like me and my “allies find it important to dress boys in pink and paint their nails. What a stupid thing to say. I guess a question would be why is it a no-no to dress a boy in pink. We dress girls in any color including blue
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
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  18. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Sure, just keep changing your story and I will pretend I don't notice. :)

    To impress the ladies or to, at least, be close to them. ;)

    I never said that.

    I do not know who this abstract "we" you are talking about is supposed to refer to. I am sure some peope do, however, it is far from being the norm to stigmatise promiscuity in contemporary society.

    How large of a percentage and how did you measure it? I believe this is an unquantifiable matter where all that can be said is that nurturing always has to be done in relation to nature - nature sets the rules and not the other way around. You cannot socialise a human child to become a horse, for example.

    Well, if that is really true, you should know very well how different the genders are.

    Did I hit a nerve? :D

    Are you intentionally dodging my questions?
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
  19. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I really have to change ,my story about double Dutch jump rope. What was wrong with me watching the kids have fun and not asking them their age and grade? This is such a beautiful example of attacking the messenger so you can ignore the message

    The boys jumped rope because it’s fun and hard to do...not to be near the “ladies”. They didn’t Imress the “ladies” because the girls were much better. I am sure many of the gentlemen wanted to be near the ladies .

    You distinctly said men don’t go into nursing because they aren’t interested in working with small children .

    I give up...you don’t understand the concept of socialization if you compare people to horses, yes, boys and girls are different but to deny socialization has a huge role, is beyond me .

    you hit a nerve when you foolishly called my colleagues radical feminists?? Lol...you just showed your Insecurities

    I mentioned the journals that the boys would write to me that were confidential. Boys usually do not share their deepest secrets with other boys the way girls do which is socialization. But because they were writing to me and not having to actually talk to me they share their deepest secrets. I also once did a lesson asking how their lives would be different if they were the opposite gender. And that was one of the answers that they would be able to share their insecurities. The girls would often say they wouldn’t be called sluts if they did what boys did. That’s socialization

    No I am not dodging your ridiculous question that it is important for us to paint boys bpnaiks and dress them in pink, it’s just too stupid to answer
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
  20. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    You changed it three times which, naturally, makes me question its validity.

    Yes and "nursing" was used as an umbrella term for the "nurturing professions" such as kindergarten teacher, teacher, working with elderly etc and not only to nurse.

    I probably understand the term better than you as I have a background in anthropology and spend large amounts of my spare time reading behavioural neuroscience, sociology, anthropology and psychology. Social constructivism is nothing but deluded and politicised horsebarf.

    No, it is just how boys happen to be - they prefer to process emotions and thoughts in their loneliness. Boys only ask for help and advice in very urgent cases.

    Yep, the kids have definitely been socialised into the postmodern narrative, with that I agree. You ve done a great job brainwashing them. :)

    So, you agree boys should be allowed to remain boys and girls should be allowed to remain girls?
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
  21. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    You’re getting sillier and sillier. Especially your last line, no ..I think boys should become girls and girls should become boys. I already started, you should see , some boys wear earrings and have pony tails. I told the girls they must lee standing up......lol

    Just curious, do you see medicine as a nurturing profession! Physical therapy? EMS? Therapists? Men can be just as nurturing and caring...

    I doubt if you know more about socialization than I do.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
  22. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Not all professions within medicine are as nurturing; a nurse and under-nurse, both have a more closer contact and personal contact with the patient than do a doctor which is, part, of the explanation to why nurse is a majority female job whereas doctor is a majority (although not overwhelmingly) majority male. PT is very gender neutral, I would say and if 'EMS' means ambulance driver, it is definitely much more of a male profession than, for example, therapist (which is dominated by females).

    Generalisations are never absolutes, no one has said men cannot be as nurturing as women or, in individual cases, even more nurturing than women. However, females and males have different hormones and different brains. They are hardwired differently and therefore tend to seek careers within different professions. I do not see why this is controversial or femiphobic in any shape or form at all. All I am doing is pointing out the obvious fact that men and women are different.

    If it was true that it was all due to socialisation and culture only, then Social Constructivists have to explain why it is that the more gender equal a coumtry/culture is, the more unequal the career choices. In other words, when men and women are given a free choice, they pick "gendered" careers and if that does not tell that socialisation is not as influential as they claim, I do not know what does.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
  23. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    Men can in fact be nurturing and caring. I got a certificate in aged care, and there were men in the field who did a good job.

    When I was a kid I was physically weak, and kids were calling me a girl. Now I am in better shape than most people my age, including ones who have been jocks.
     
  24. Carl Von Clausewitz

    Carl Von Clausewitz Well-Known Member

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    What's interesting is that Jews have long supported feminism in European western nations but if you observe orthodox Jewish communities feminism is basically nonexistent.
     
  25. Carl Von Clausewitz

    Carl Von Clausewitz Well-Known Member

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    The funny thing about feminists is that they supposedly care about equality but never elaborate on the rights of men or the inequalities they endure.
     

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