How you are being robbed of your right to vote fairly

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by LafayetteBis, Sep 27, 2018.

  1. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From the National Democratic Redistricting Committee

    An excerpt:
    Redistricting of the voting population in various states has grossly affected which party elects whom and how many members of either Democrats or Republicans a state sends to Congress. This manipulation of voting districts is unfair and should be against the law. Any real republican democracy is based upon a simple rule: "One person, one vote".

    And that vote should not be amalgamated to produce an election-win on one side or the other. If you think "We have no voice in Washington!", then this is a good reason why. Your vote was manipulated by redistricting!

    You should be concerned because it is "Your Democracy" that is at stake ...

    PS: How do other countries run their democratic vote? Here's how:
    *You are a citizen of the country therefore you have a right and a duty to vote.
    *In some countries if you do not vote, you are fined.
    *Most countries have a national identification system, meaning at birth (or upon achieving citizenship) an individual is given a National Identity Card. It is with this identification that citizens are allowed to vote. And only citizens!
    *There is no local "districting" of the vote. (Also, many democracies do not have a Senate.) The voting process is or can be repetitive. Meaning in a long list of candidates (for either the HofR or the Senate) the first election will lower the number of possible candidates to the first top-two who then participate a week later in a run-off vote.
    *All political voting is conducted physically on a non-workday (and often multiple days) or by means of the Internet (where safeguards prevent illicit identification of voters).
    *In this manner the genuine voice-of-the-people is preserved in a True Democracy!
     
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  2. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    There is a case against gerrymandering going on right now in PA, I think, regardless of how it goes I think it will be appealed to the SCOTUS, then we shall see.

    Gerrymandering as a party advantage can go either way, depending who has the advantage when the census comes up and the districts are redrawn.
     
  3. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    This is the opposite to the Electoral College, right?
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
  4. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nope. It is intended to constrain American democracy to first-principles. The first of first-principles being the condition that a Fair Popular-Vote decides our representatives to both chambers of Congress and the White House.

    Which is NOT THE CASE today. Manipulation of the popular vote nationally and state-wide is rife throughout the country.

    I hasten to add that a fair-vote does elect most of Congress. Because the voting procedure of Congressional Reps (both the Senate and House) was based purely upon population as registered in periodic studies of population count by state. So, rant as I may, the Senate and the HofR - both in the hands of the Replicants - are popular-vote results. So, I can't complain.

    From here: Member of Congress

    Excerpt:
    The presidential vote should be the same, purely a popular-vote reported by the Electoral College of each state. Unfortunately, as it stands today, the way the Electoral College is established (state-by-state) does not reflect the result of a "popular-vote" in terms of the numbers. Donald Dork lost the popular-vote and yet won the presidency.

    What sort of "democratic inanity" is that? Certain not one acceptable ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
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  5. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Supremes are taking their own sweet time deciding FINALLY. That sad-story is here:
    The Supreme Court still won’t crack down on partisan gerrymandering — yet ...

    They too need remodeling. No post of judge should be guaranteed for life, especially in the highest court in the USA. Had the Supreme Court been greatly progressive today, the Koch Brothers would have long ago given up their American citizenship.

    It's a shame they dont. Just one more sad-story in a long-list about how BigMoney pollutes politics - but this time it's in (supposedly) the Greatest Democracy on Earth.

    Yeah, right ...
     
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  6. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    First of all we don't have a national vote for president, we hold 50 of them.

    In order to be president you must win a majority of the states, not the majority of people in a couple of states.

    That is how Hillary won the popular vote, it was all decided in California.

    Remember that people in Wyoming have different needs from California and NY but their votes would be wiped out by a direct vote simply because they have such tiny numbers. On top of that, there will not be one president going to that state and addressing their concerns because there is no point to it.

    There time would be better spent in the states with very high population centers because that's where the election will be won.

    So the EC is just fine and is doing its job as intended.

    As for gerrymandering you are overlooking the fact that is has one key use.

    It groups together like minded individuals for the purpose of specific representation, its not generally done just so one party can win.

    Go look at the lines in places like Iowa where you see dairy farmers grouped together, or people that raise corn in another district. This is done so that the representative in each district will have to specifically address the concerns of the majority of his constituency.

    It would be stupid to group together a bunch of farmers with a bunch of people in the city because they more than likely have completely opposite needs so what would the politician who is representing them do?

    You will see business grouped together, people of races or religions, whatever the leaders of the state determine they have for various groups is usually how they draw the line.

    Then its up to the politician to specifically address the groups in their district which will almost always be either republican or democrat. One or the other is going to make a better appeal to that group so will get their vote...that is how districting is run.

    They don't just group republicans and democrats separately lol.
     
  7. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Dead Right but Still Wrong!

    Your remark above is the way it was concocted in 1786 in order to get the southern states to sign the Constitution, which otherwise they would not have done. They had refused to sign the document. (And they have remained wrapped in the same political ignorance ever since, which is why a war was fought in the 1860s that the south lost but changed nothing in terms of political mentality!)

    We as a nation, however, have advanced greatly since then. Except, in order to change the Constitution, the states must vote any Amendment rewrite whenever necessary. That national plebiscite might likely not work because the southern states alone would vote against it.

    Given that historically the US has just mis-elected as PotUS for the fifth time in history the candidate that lost the popular-vote (and by a significant margin of 2%), we need to do it now! A democracy is a democracy only where The Popular-vote Is The Sole Expression of the Will of the People Governed!

    Moreover, that rule applies FOR ALL OTHER VOTING OF POLITICAL REPRESENTATION in the nation with the sole exception of the presidency!


    An archaic obstinance by Right-wing cretins think nothing should change given the manifest manipulations of the Voting Mechanism by both state gerrymandering or the Electoral Colleges. So The Right Time Is NOW!

    And it could not be easier. All Congress need do is vote a bill signed by the PotUS that requires ALL STATE ELECTORAL COLLEGES to report only the popular-vote numbers in a presidential election and state-gerrymandering is made illegal.

    But for that to happen, we need a Congress and President to do it. So, such a change is not in the cards for the moment. But just for the moment ...

    PS: And, please, no BS about the US not being a democracy but a republic, because both words are synonymous!
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
  8. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why does the HoR have direct representation in proportion to district-populations but the Senate only two-votes per state?

    Because this insures that cases like yours of specificity as regards particular electorates are taken into account in the HofR, which has more weight in the matter. But, the Senate "model" is not that specific by state. Still, when it comes to voting matters that is specific to the state-population, Senators more than likely group together with other Senators with similar specificities in order to inform themselves. Whyzzat?

    Any party that shows a particular policy-preference (at the Congressional level) that is different from state-to-state across the nation is asking for problems in any election ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
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  9. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The NDRC :eyepopping:

    That's an umbrella group of the "resistance" to overthrow the current executive branch of the federal government.

    It full of Alinskyites community organizers.

     
  10. MAGA

    MAGA Well-Known Member

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    Democrats loved gerrymandering when they controlled most state legislatures.

    Losing 900+ state legislature seats by supporting bad policies has suddenly changed their minds.

    Gerrymandering districts must be done by someone. At large voting would remove district representation, which would trigger every race-card holder in America.
     
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  11. therooster

    therooster Banned

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    Thank god for kavanaugh. And he is mad.
     
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  12. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Mad indeed, like Trump and most Republicans
     
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  13. therooster

    therooster Banned

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    Lol... im happy as a clam.
     
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  14. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    It is not the case today, nor has it been the case since the Constitution was ratified.

    It is my opinion that it has worked pretty well. Just because you, at this instant in time, are dissatisfied with the outcome is hardly a reason to trash a perfectly functional system.
     
  15. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you know what "gerrymandering" means. And if so, kindly explain why any country should allow it. Because ONLY THE US DOES!

    Hint: It is devious manipulation of the popular-vote to allow one side or the other win elections. It's been around for hundreds of years. "Gerry" was a governor of Massachusetts in 1812 who reorganized voting districts to get his buddies elected.

    We soooo love history, we Yanks ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
  16. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What do you means "it is not the case today"? What?!?

    Read your history book. Five times in American history the candidate who LOST THE POPULAR-VOTE WON THE PRESIDENCY.

    In no other vote of the nation on a local, state or national level did this happen. And why? Because whoever wins the popular-vote in the states wins the entire vote of the Electoral College. Meaning that the result of the popular-vote is falsified! Moreover, the number of Electoral College members often does not conform to the population of the state.

    But, of course, who am I to complain. Falsifying the presidential vote is OK because it's been done five times in the last 200 years and nobody neva sed nuthin ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
  17. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Those are the rules of the Constitution. It is not "falsifying" the vote. There are also rules about changing the Constitution if you want to try that. Myself, I am satisfied that the Constitution has resulted in a successful and prosperous nation.
     
  18. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Which simply means that you don't accept the Electoral college. It begs the question of why? I would ask the question this way. Why would you wish to implement the tyranny of the mob? When the mob is so easily provoked, Lots of examples, and yet this is the method you would force on us?
     
  19. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What you mean ours is the most unfair of nations in its vote of Executive Head, given that its Income Disparity is amongst the worst. It was, after all, the handiwork of the PotUS in 1980 who drastically reduced upper-income taxation from 70% to 30%!

    In terms of Income Disparity the US is one the most unfair of developed-nations in terms of distribution of incomes. Which is why - for your edification- I have linked Income-Disparity above to its definition.

    Enjoy ... !!!
     
  20. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    Sometimes the lines are very long, and sometimes the weather changes. Always wear comfortable shoes and take a poncho or an umbrella to the polls.
     
  21. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have explained a dozen time already in this particular forum-exchange why the Electoral College is unfair-voting. So, here it is again in a news article:
    Why the Electoral College is the absolute worst, explained

    Now, tell the world how that article is all wrong, all wrong, all wrong ...
     
  22. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Whooo hoo.. you found an article that agrees with your tyranny. Got it. I'm not willing to let 10 counties in CA and NY decide all future national elections.
     
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  23. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you were correct, Hillary would be President.

    You are not correct, however.
     
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  24. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    I don't mean that at all. That is your position. I mean that our system of government has been successful.

    It may well be the most unequal, but that doesn't translate into most unfair.

    I attribute the inequality of income distribution to an increase in globalization. It is interesting to note that the two most defining issues of Trumpism, immigration and protectionism, are exactly those endorsed by the unions of the 1960's before the Democrats sold them out.

    In other words, I don't think that your recommendations about elections would have any effect on income inequality as the Democrats are on the wrong side of the important issues.
     
  25. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Some people on this forum must have the last word. As simpleton as it may be.

    You've had yours. Moving right along ...
     

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