alexa, you forgot to mention the media three day long furore about the unacceptable vandalism of a YES sticker on the window of Ian Murray MP's office in 2014. As an aside....and given that polls are used really to form public opinion just as much as the media is....do you find it at all worrying that a YouGov poll in some areas is asking " How much do you agree or disagree with the following statement:- The best way to run the country would be to have a strong leader who does not have to bother with Parliament or elections" That was along with another question which asked those being polled to rate Asians, Black and White people, born in Britain, on a thermometer from feeling very cold/unfavourable about them to very warm/favourable. No idea who sponsored the survey or which areas were targeted, but it is scary that it is even being asked if people would approve of a fascist dictatorship....particularly at a time when May is banging on about strong and stable government...and has talked about using Henry VIII clauses, which will circumvent any parliamentary oversight of the changes made when EU law is absorbed, or not, into UK law. Do you think she is channeling Erdogan, the way Tory policies are channelling the BNP? http://metro.co.uk/2017/04/27/some-of-bnps-2005-election-pledges-are-now-mainstream-policy-6599296/
yes indeed. Hmmm. I think I protect myself by thinking we will solve it by Indy and leave them to it. Discussing May when she was only home Secretary with my daughter during the Indyref had her thinking we, as an Independent Scotland would need to build another wall to keep the English Nazis out!!!! I looked up what Craig Murray had said and noticed at the end this https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/ I mentioned earlier in the thread that we had moved to what would have been considered the far right 30 years ago. The poster I was speaking to found this an incomprehensible belief. The BNP 2010 Manifesto had an alarming resemblance to Trump. We are at the moment facing this throughout the West, with though a firm resistance already emerging particular in the US....but yes...it is within the past ten years that the Guardian was alarmed that a poll had come out which stated that a slight majority of the English would support an authoritarian state provided it did not appear violent. Again like you say questions put ideas in people's minds. Authoritarian States are not violent until they get in. They do not begin violent. That comes later. I have heard to be on guard with May trying to take away the Scottish Parliament - might we at that point get Gordon Brown in favour of Independence - something I suspect would bring a decisive Yes with no need to work - or is he too busy on the circuit making millions to be bothered? He pointed out that May is on a massive Power Grab from the Scottish Parliament through Brexit which he claimed he would fight, seemingly unaware that was what Nicola had been doing. As far as this is concerned This certainly is beyond the pale. Murray also mentions this as well as the total falsehood of this election as a democratic process but rather that May is following the typical fascist way of appealing to emotions, not to any policy. She intends on winning this election simply through this quote of the Guardian by Murray https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/04/theresa-mays-fake-meetings/ so I think it is not at all impossible that we may have an Autocrat in waiting. He points out how staged all her supposed 'meetings' with supporters are and one in particular in Scotland which was all over the tv news last night - without this information. (can be seen at link in quote) He says Our press, including the Guardian which I once trusted are all going along with this farce. You know I have been tempted to vote Labour - or rather for Corbyn. I think he is the only hope left that England will not descend into fascism - neo liberalism and democracy do not work!!!! However where I live this would be no good. It is either the SNP or the Tories and on top of that as Murray says https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/04/the-corbyn-conundrum/ I think you have definitely hit the nail on the head where the base of the issues lie. Now to fight it.
No, it was your post I linked to. You support London's Independence from England. You do not support Scottish Independence. Indeed you have suggested dividing Scotland up if she votes that way and threatened sending armies in and so on. A very strong aversion to losing your last colony while absolutely fine on losing your Capital - and until Brexit, the place where most of the investment in the UK was put in and most of the GDP came out of. I am not convinced you have any beliefs. Wanting to hold on to your last colony while letting go of the head of your imperial past - well!!
I don't support either Alexa. I've made that clear. Your link is to someone else calling for it I think. Not me. Your bad. Neither London nor Scotland want independence from the UK. So F all fascists trying to bring that about against their wishes. London may be the countries capital, but it's not mine. My capital is my mums house. For those Scots who want political independence, next step towards that goal is to ghettoise. To geographically take over areas that can be separated off from Scotland. All move to the same towns and then hold a micro referendum in the area's you hold. The problem for the Scottish independence movement is that it is lead by fascists. People who not so much trying to get political independence as they are take over Scotland. They are simply the exact same kind of scum as those they rebel against. You'll get no political freedom there. I'm actually very hot on independence and advocate for it. I don't want you in my country if you don't want to be in it. F off and as quickly as possible please. Fascism however? Gets the big F U. War is not ever off the table with fascists. Political freedom = independence from you. London? There is no significant number of separatists there. Independence for London. It's a joke issue. Light hearted. If you take it seriously, the laugh is on you.
well I admit I tend to ignore you posts and even those I look at, most of. The link I left was to your post however saying http://www.politicalforum.com/index...-leaving-the-eu.479390/page-5#post-1067392836 where you claim that London belongs to the people who own it - blimey though that probably is Gulf States by now. You do not see London as part of England, belonging to England, despite it having the Houses of Parliament and all the other Institutions which have grown as it's history as the Capital of England. London's wealth comes from the investment which has been put into it instead of into the rest of England and Scotland, NI and Wales. That and being the financial hub of the EU. Ironically the strongest voice I have heard for Independence of London has not been to screw the rest of England as the other poster seems to want to do but due to the reality that they do not share the move to the far right that a lot of England has shown, particularly areas which unlike London were put into 'Managed Decline' in the 80's like the NE. Ah, you are possibly very young but that cannot be as you said you were able to pay for holidays abroad before we joined the EU - so somewhere you are not being honest. That and your admittedly lack of knowledge of anything political which you have admitted, indeed admitted not even bothering to find out what leaving the EU would do to the UK, is one of the reasons why I usually ignore your posts and why they offer very little reality as far as politics are concerned. Enough of this! Back to serious debate http://www.politicalforum.com/index...nce-a-day-makes.499703/page-7#post-1067403052
Yes, by that statement, I was referring to London's ownership. I am subject to Her Majesties laws, but she does not own me. My house is in the country ruled by her palace in Westminster, but it is not hers. It is not yours. Is it is not ours. It is mine. London is not ours. I have no claim to any of it. It is the capital city of my country. The biggest city. It's not mine. No part of it at all is mine. Loads of people own little bits of it and together they own all of it. But I am not one of them. You seem to have taken this as support for London's political independence from the UK on my behalf. It isn't. Ownership and political affiliation are not the same thing at all. I hope that clears it up for you. I don't own London. You don't own North Sea oil. We just live nearby. I'm 47 Alexa. I have very strong expectation that Londons position as a banking capital, both globally and in the EU countries will be with us long after the EU is just a foot note in the history books. City of London>EU. It has survived hundreds of regime changes in Europe. Thousands of trade deals. More than survived ,it has prospered and become a global centre of excellence. It was the centre of banking before the EU. Before any of us were born and even before our grandparents were born. All through our total isolation from the entirety of the EU in WW2. In fact London's banking centre got us the funds to beat the all EU countries combined in that war, and indeed the Bank of England was built for this exact purpose. To fund the defeat of Napolean. Which it did. You think I'm scared of the EU? Think again. They are scared of me. And of our banks. As they rightly should be. We were here before the EU, we will be here after the EU. The bulk of London's money is made elsewhere and quite frankly they need money urgently. The EU are in mid financial crisis. They will come begging. They are already begging. They will never stop begging us. The City of London is a globally trading industry, the wealth invested into it isn't yours. Most of it does not originate from the UK at all. You can't spend that money on England, Ireland, Scotland or Wales because it isn't yours and you don't have access to it. Governments take a skim of that business and rival governments compete heavily for that tax upon it. They use the EU to gang up on us. Inside the EU or outside the EU, that isn't going to change. We have no friends in other countries in this regard. none at all. They are all out to get us and always have been and always will be. The EU did dick for our banking industry. It's not included in the single market. They are hostile to it. In or out, it changes nothing.
Ouch, that hurt my eyes! Anyway didn't you once tell me she was your 'boss'? That's the same as 'owning you' init?
No mate. The boss doesn't own me. I freely give my services to my boss in exchange for something I want in return. In slavery, your owner owns you. We don't have ownership of people here. Only property. In communism and perhaps republicanism, the states property is deemed owned by the "the citizens". Effectively it's still owned by the state of course, to all practical purpose, but the citizens are encouraged to believe that it's theirs. Here in the UK we don't do bullshit. It's not ours, we have no need for self delusion. We are subjects. it should be noted however that in both communist and other republican systems, private ownership still exists. You still wouldn't theoretically own London. Only theoretically own part of the government infrastructure there.
There was a March of around 100,000 People in Edinburgh today for Independence. This is the largest march ever for Indy. https://www.theguardian.com/politic...pporters-rally-in-edinburgh-second-referendum
OP The EU will tax Scottish oil revenues for all they're worth if Scotland is stupid enough to Remain.
Your expecting the EU to take over where the UK leaves off? https://www.gov.scot/Topics/Business-Industry/Energy/Facts I think your are confusing tax with the amount that Scotland if it stayed/rejoined the EU would need to pay in contributions. Prior to the fall in the price of oil it was considered in 14 that Scotland would be a net contributor. Even though oil has risen again it is still not as high as it was before the fall so I do not know if that would be the case now. If it did come to independence I suspect initially Scotland would be part of the EEA.
You'll still have to cough up big bucks for the membership though? Just think of all that Scottish money thrown down the drain by a bunch of incompetent foreigners??
Same goes for an independent Scotland. Ultimately the people of Northern Ireland and Scotland don't want this, so it won't happen without a war.
Scotland fails the EU criteria miserably and has 0 chance of passing it. Debt has to be below 40% to join the EU and Euro Scotland has a higher deficit than England does so when we fairly split the debt Scotland will end up over 100% debt to gdp. It really does show how quickly the EU racked the debt up given in 2000 all the countries in the EU passed this and now only Poland, Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania are even close. Price of the mental socialists though who have created this debt. Socialists should pay more tax it's their debt not mine.
Cerebus, just about everyone now admits that the UK is going to be considerably poorer when we leave the EU and for working people almost certainly a massive reduction in rights. Are you stacking up on food? Leaving the EU is a last ditch attempt to keep neo liberalism going. The Scottish Tories are working hard to keep May in as they believe Boris or Mogg will totally end their hopes - they will not even have a voice to fight it themselves.
The worse the Brexit deal the more likely Scotland to go for Independence http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/
Yeah there's always a new reason why Scotland is going to go for independence. Trouble is, Scotland doesn't actually want independence, only a minority of them do. Expect eternal whinging.
I hope Scotland severs all ties with the rest of the UK, politically and geographically, and floats away to somewhere in the Arctic Circle, never to be seen nor heard from ever again.
That would be why we would be aiming to join EFTA (and EFTA should shut the farmers and fishermen up as they aren't included, though I suspect that won't stop them carping) . Once we have a Central Bank, which we would need before anything else for EU membership, then maybe thatwould become an option, if we voted for it when the criteria had been met. It is the single market that's important, not the EU per se. And, by the way, the largest part of Scotland's deficit is because of the charges made by Westminster for "services" Westminster provides...whether we want them or not....the FOR Scotland as opposed to the IN Scotland spending. If nothing else happens after independence, we could get a growth in tax take when all the civil service jobs we fund in London and environs are repatriated to Scotland
https://www.reuters.com/article/sco...ls-to-7-9-pct-of-gdp-in-2017-18-idUSL9N1ST024 It's quite simple Scotland spends more than the rest of the UK per person and is increasing it's budget quicker than England, Wales or NI. It has nothing to do with Westminster it has to do with increased education and health care costs, at the moment the rest of the UK is paying for Scotland's happy hour.
Nothing new. Apparently if we don't give them more money, they are going to have a referendum. Same if we don't join the EU. Also if we don't change the clocks and admit we are racists.
That comes from our block grant, which is a PORTION of the taxes the UK guesstimates we pay to Treasury returned to us to spend on certain devolved areas, in Scotland and for Scotland, only one of which is fully devolved. The Scottish government is not ALLOWED spend more than it gets between the block grant and locally raised taxes...it HAS to stay within budget...and it does. Therefore any deficit we have is pretty much what Westminster hands us...it gets what it doesn't give us back from our taxes....PLUS charges us a share of debt interest on debt we had no say in accumulating, a share of the foreign embassies etc which then charge Scotland’s exports and inward investment agency, Scottish Development International £3000 to hold a reception in them, a share of Defence, which is more than any small independent country would require to spend, and a share of the UK Border Agency on England's borders, in fact we pay something to every agency in Westminster which deals with areas devolved to Scotland, because it is Westminster who writes and administers the rules we have to abide by. The increased education and health care costs is a choice made by the Scottish Government when deciding how to spend their income to ensure they don't exceed that income...because that is NOT ALLOWED!
Brexit was built on English Nationalism - that ethnic nationalist stuff. It is not then surprising that Brexit will lead to the end of the Union. Even Scottish Unionists are only 1% behind a majotrity in favour of an Independent Scotland if Brexit comes to be and as for the English Nationalists, they are so nationalistic, they are looking for another fight with the Irish! I am guessing the EU, not requiring Ms Foster's vote will listen to the people of the North, the majority of whom want to stay in the EU and that sooner than you know there will be a United Ireland. https://www.commonspace.scot/articl...gures-show-union-falling-apart-front-our-eyes
