Jair Bolsonaro declared Brazil's next president

Discussion in 'Central & South America' started by alexa, Oct 29, 2018.

  1. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    I disagree with the opinion stated in the article you excerpted.

    "In such a context, “globalisation” has been deployed as a scapegoat by some governments, invoking external blame for economic problems made at home."

    I believe that Globalism is, for the west, an internally created problem. We made our own bed here.

    We did it in a variety of ways.

    In the order that I think of them, rather than by degree of importance:

    We decided to price labor well outside of reasonable expectations.

    We decided to create excessive amounts of workplace regulations; such that it became a motivation for businesses to manufacture in less regulated markets.

    We decided to defend our environment to the extent that we exported our environmentsl degredations to other countries.

    Then, as a coup de grâce, we decided that the unreasonably excessive extra costs, that we decided to impose on businesses, were too expensive, so we decided to buy our stuff from other countries, who we didn't handicap with all of our ridiculous demands.

    WE DID IT TO OURSELVES!
     
  2. Mamasaid

    Mamasaid Banned

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    For one, its end is war. We've watched it happen over and over.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
  3. Mamasaid

    Mamasaid Banned

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    While that may or may not be true., it can and has raised standards of living. We sure didn't mind that globalism, in 1950, after we had destroyed much of the world's industrial capacity. Eventually this "cheap labor" phenomenon will correct itself, and we should be in front of that. The United States is extremely wealthy and has the finest universities and science and hospitals and libraries, etc. This doesn't require toxic nationalism, and globalism makes it even better. Go and see the physics department at Stanford, or the coding bloc of Microsoft.
     
  4. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    "Go and see the physics department at Stanford, or the coding bloc of Microsoft."


    I'll take your word for it that those places are great.

    What do they do for the man in the street?

     
  5. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    That is not a given.

    Japan, post their feudalism days, has been nationalist. They have engaged in war and refrained from war.

    They are still nationalist, but do not threaten anyone. Clearly there must be other factors at work.
     
  6. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Maybe we did not learn the right lessons from WW2, historians have been so focused on the details of exactly how the war came about that they have mostly overlooked what caused the underlying circumstances that led up to the war.
    Ideas may only be symptom of a greater underlying problem.

    People in Europe were severely suffering and there were bad problems. War might not seem so bad when there's a chance you'll die of starvation anyway (or they feel they might as well be dead because the quality of living is so wretched).
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
  7. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    The darn globalists would do better to work at making Ethiopia, or some other wretched place, better, than to work at bringing down the west.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
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  8. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    No. She is ranting on the edge of incoherence. Everything she knows about Brazil seems to have been cribbed from questionable left wing sources and then carefully filtered to get the answer she always knew was there - the bad people she thinks are responsible for all the other bad things she dislikes are responsible for this. Somehow she has even managed to drag Israel and a non existent Muslim genocide into a thread on Brazil. Quite an effort.

    One of the problems of approaching the world with a set of ready made conclusions is that you always end up wiht the same answers....no matter how far from the truth they may be.

    I happen to think this election result is a terrible one for Brazil, opening up the possibility that there will be a return to some of the worst policies in modern Brazilian history. It is also sad that the policies the PT used to pull so many people out of poverty will likely be abandoned. However, just because a thing is bad doesn't mean anything you say about it is necessarily correct.
     
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  9. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is true. It has raised standards of living in some places. However I think the only reason it has raised them is because it has sent jobs which used to be done in Western countries there where the corporations can exploit the situation by paying the lowest wages and avoid putting back in through taxes.
    Yes I agree with you there. The US made itself great by Globalisation.
    What I read is that it is more likely to correct itself by a lowering in Western countries down to that of those it is helping now.

    I believe we need a new economic system. We for instance to not need 8 people to own as much wealth as the poorest 50% of the world
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-...richest-people-have-same-wealth-as-poorest-50


    Interesting. I thought you had declined there but you still have what are rated as the 4 best Universities in the world
    https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2019

    But you are a country not working to stop climate change so it is irrelevant if you are good at science if you do not intend on preserving the world for the people who come after you. You may, or not have good hospitals but I remember when we looked at it, you have the poorest healthcare outcomes in the developed word - or maybe on outcomes it was the UK but your health care system in general comes out very poorly with other developed countries.

    Did I suggest it did?

    I thought somewhere you spoke of wealth. You are obviously a deteriorating Empire.

    anyway this is going way off topic.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
  10. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Looking back at post 65

    Me
    Did not take long for that American puppet 'opposition' in Venezuela to make clear their love of fascist dictators and call for them to attack their country.

    https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/14121
     
  11. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's the opinion of Owen Jones, not one I give much value as I'm not debating him at the moment.
    I don't go by what people say, I go by what they do. The US political party have the peculiarity that there isn't a strict party line. You have right leaning democrats and left leaning republican and all are free to vote or act as they want. The USA aren't like the rest of the western world where the party dictate the agenda and if an elected member of a party act against the agenda then he's forced to resign.

    I would recommend that you read up on the subject a bit.
     
  12. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    What a pile of horseshit. The US have doubled it's GDP growth rate, jobs are plentiful and wages are rising nicely.

    I don't blame Brazil for turning away from Authoritarian Socialism, look at how it destroyed Venezuela.

    Jair Bolsonaro, president-elect of Brazil, plans to close Brazil's embassy in "Palestine," to leave the United Nations, and to relax his nation's draconian gun laws.

    Looks like he respects the rights of Brazilians to effective self-defense. Authoritarian Socialists hate that.

    In August, Bolsonaro said he would shutter the embassy. In an interview, he said, "Is Palestine a country? Palestine is not a country, so there should be no embassy here. You do not negotiate with terrorists."

    He respects the Jewish People. Authoritarian Socialists tend to be anti-Semitic.

    After Bolsonaro's election, Bibi Netanyahu sent him a message, "I am confident that your election will lead to a great friendship between the two peoples and to the strengthening of ties between Brazil and Israel. We await your visit to Israel."

    Then there is the United Nations. In July, Bolsonaro said, "If I am president, I will leave the UN. That institution is of no use." He also said, "It's no good, it's a meeting place for communists and people who have no commitment to South America."

    Can't argue with that!

    The Guardian reported, "Brazil’s far-right, pro-gun president-elect has signalled he will seek to relax his country’s firearms laws in a bid to combat a homicide epidemic that last year claimed nearly 64,000 lives.

    Brazil will be much more dangerous for violent criminals.

    Guns don't kill people. People do. And their favorite targets are those who cannot fire back.

    55% of his nation -- the fifth largest nation in the world -- voted for him. Americans are not the only people who are tired of liberalism.

    https://donsurber.blogspot.com/2018/10/brazils-next-president-may-out-trump.html#more
     
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  13. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Brilliantly stated.
     
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  14. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    whatever you say man, it is your personal opinion, that opinion is not supported by the facts.
    The facts are that progressives divide people by sex by race and sexual orientation.

    They promote sex and race based special rights (affirmative actions), that in turn infuriate general public.
    As the result general public vote for conservatives.

    The system special rights is detrimental to the society.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
  15. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Whatever you say, kreo, it is your personal opinion, that right wing opinion is not supported by the facts. But the far right supports sex and race discrimination based on their personal opinion. That is why there are more Dems than Pubs. And the indies will vote to make the House blue this time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
  16. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Because of course, the communist party was working out just SUPER well for Brazil! So much progress!
     
  17. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Because there was so much progress before? What was this progress? The progress in corruption?
     
  18. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Actually, it was for quite a while. Under Lula the economy did well & his programs led to some impressive reductions in poverty. He did a substantially better job than many of his predecessors. Unlike Chavez, whose hero status is based on anti-US posturing & a ton of promises, Lula was much more effective. Bolsa Familia was a very effective program.

    http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/opinion/2013/11/04/bolsa-familia-Brazil-quiet-revolution

    Unfortunately Lula's successor was not up to the job. Even worse, he turned out to be just as corrupt as everyone else in Brazilian politics. That doesn't mean his government was a complete failure or didn't make any progress. It is also worth pointing out that PT has been out of power for a couple of years. The outgoing President is from the right, not the left.

    Bolsonaro is a very dangerous man who is keen to brush aside democracy & rule of law. He also looks keen to open up some of the sharp social divides in Brazil. My bet is that poverty & violence increase under his watch.
     
  19. goody

    goody Banned

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    Hahaha... OK.
     
  20. goody

    goody Banned

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    What are the factors that support your claim about the vanishing of the middle class?
    Might there be factors that are supporting just the otherwise; the expansion of the middle class..???

    Who/What is Dugan? I recall either Jeanette or Scarlet Witch was talking about this Dugan too... According to google it is an Irish surname.
    What in the world an Irish person does have anything to do with Putin unless he's a relative or something to the Notorious McGregor???
    McGregor is Putin's very good friend but I'd doubt he'd promote any far right in Europe. I remember him once calling Daghistanis stinky rats and terrorists but that'd be hardly a promotion of far right, wouldn't it?
    Please advice, thanks.

    Christian right... Evangelicals? Roman Catholics? Which are the greater at the joint base? Which one want to annihilate Muslims?

    Anyways Alexa, let Hungary, Poland, Brazil, even Russia -as you put- to have strong Christian orientations. Since you are responding my post, which was partly about pointing a global pattern of a global shift to conservatism, primarily in some key regions like S. Africa, n. America, s. Pacific, s. Europe, Middle East, and s. America, and since it was you again in this response reducing those continental regions throughout the globe to only 3 christian dominant regions (S. America, N. America and Europe), I think we can say you are suggesting this entire change is because of the rise of Christian right in those regions... True?
    Look, I don't want to infer anything out of some vague statements, so please feel free to state your opinion directly in this public forum Alexa. We are all civil here. I don't know about Lee tho, he sounds pro-censor sometimes.

    Go ahead and say what you think, and we discuss and brainstorm.
     
  21. goody

    goody Banned

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    What is this? Are you trying to see me attacking Soros? Me like thinking 6 moves ahead (makes 12 half moves) in complex situation"s" by which not just 1 but multiple scenarios can be set and only "limited" outcomes can be reached... think of it as DoD game theory scenarios for non (or less) military applications... yes mastuh.. me like designuh... not Jerman BMW auto designuh... me build sociocultural, political and economic designs... that is what me was born for... das equaßion is simplè:
    customer demands, ich design, tiny humans live... their questions are generally limited by das frames of das design, which allows administrators certain updates ...

    Know I want you whom with deal you...
    Danke...
    Adi Daster...
     
  22. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    All which cannot be improved upon with such an unbelievably high level of corruption.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
  23. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There seems to be more 'Hitlers' around now then there was before and during WWII. More 'Fascists' too.
     
  24. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Neither can it be improved upon with a return to past policies. Not just welfare policies, but a return to a virtual state of war against the impoverished majority. Lula's programs worked because he reached out to the poor rather than treating them as a criminal class. Improvements are also not going to come from a return to the authoritarianism that has failed in the past or attacks on ethic minorities. In fact, authoritarianism frequently breeds corruption.

    Bolsonaro is an understandable response in context, but he isn't going to fix Brazil's problems any more than Dutuerte will fix the Philippines. You don't kill your way to a solution.

    I notice you've dropped the 'no progress' claim. Remarkable what a little information can do.
     
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  25. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    When did I say "no progress?"
     

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