The Bible

By the way I meant to ask you - again. According to Christianity's version of Hosea 11 where did Jesus sacrifice to Baal and offer incense to Idols. Was it in Egypt or later in his adult life? Or perhaps Joseph did it for him.

 

..your opinion, without any facts or evidence. All of the stories in the bible have plausible, rational explanations. It is just prejudice to dismiss them.

..again, your opinion. Millions, if not billions of people over thousands of years would disagree.

Regarding quoting the bible (or other texts):

He who repeats what he does not understand is no better than an ass that is loaded with books. ~Kahlil Gibran

..one of my favorite quotes, and one i can relate to!

 

Sounds more like YOUR 'version'.. or caricature. Do you have someone you are quoting that you want me to defend?

Or is this just a straw man?

Can you show the 'error!' in the bible, from this passage?

I'll quote this, and Matthew's reference:
Hos11:1 "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.

Matt2:15 ..where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: "Out of Egypt I called my son."

So what is the problem? Matthew's connecting the Hosea reference to Jesus? You don't think it applies? That's fine, but others do. There is no 'error!' here, just a difference of opinion, about a messianic reference.

You can dismiss it, if you wish, but it is not an 'error!'.. it is an opinion from Matthew about an ot prophecy.

There is a very deep, spiritual connection with ot prophecies.. often with duality of application.. and dogmatically insisting on a specific 'interpretation' is a risky venture. I tend to accept the interpretations of apostles, eyewitnesses, and the early apologists, than some critic millennia removed.

 

You think that living the Christian life is any different to the life you describe. You do your good deeds expecting eternal life. I do my good deeds not expecting any return. Just the joy/pleasure of giving. Of seeing a smile on a sad face. Who do you think has the more pleasure?
No choices are in vain. No life is in vain. A man hanged for murder 300 years ago may have produced descendants who have benefitted mankind. Was his life in vain?
I'm sorry for you. You depend on your god to do good deeds. (Faith without works is dead) And on that basis you hope to enter heaven. I do it for the pleasure.

 

Oh. You think that taking a verse out of context justifies a prophecy? Israel isn't Jesus. Nowhere in the OT is 'Jesus' mentioned. And if Jesus went to Egypt it must have been a quick journey. Luke has him in Nazareth 40 days after his birth. Wow. Pony express.

And it isn't an opinion of the writer of Matthew. The Nativity is the basis upon which Christianity declares Jesus divine. Without the nativity story Jesus would have been a normal child growing up to be what he was 'a Jewish preacher'. All 'Matthews' devices are taken out of context of the Jewish scriptures.

Every 'prophecy' ever made will, in the fulness of time, be fufilled. Prophecies are made for the time - not for the distant future. Duality of prophecy was/is a Christian idea completely to cover the problem that many 'prophecies' were fulfilled in the OT.

What you are telling me is that God/Jahweh told Hosea that He had taken Israel out of Egypt, 'but, by the way Hosea, this will also refer to Jesus in the distant future'.
What?

There are no prophecies regarding Jesus. The OT stands complete for the Jews. Even Paul adapted Jewish practises and rituals to form his 'christianity'.

As for the early apologists they themselves were often at odds with each other. That's why there were so many 'heresies' of the time.and 'Councils' to sort out doctrine.

 

I'll just pick one of them to comment on and another to ask a question about. Just about each and every one of them could be a thread in itself.

11. The Way to know God.

Everybody seems to have their own concept of "God". Some imagine god to have a body like our because we are "the image" of god. Some say that is ridiculous but say god has all our human emotions and characteristics like wants, intentions, desires, plans, understandings, etc. while others say a god who sees beyond time and knows all cannot want anything. Some say god hates some things while others say god doesn't hate. Some say there are things god can't do. Others say he can do anything he wants.

So if the bible offers a way to know god, why is there such disagreement? Why doesn't anyone know God?

Tell me about #13. What are the mysteries of the universe, our destiny, our origins, and our purpose?

 

I see you have nothing to offer. No surprise there.

 

I haven't just dismissed them. I have been through them logically and studied the Bible story and the details. Then placed the story in the background of the times. There is no possibility of the event happening. Even miracles could not have worked things out the ways described.
2.5-3 millions people are expected to 'march' in order through the desert.

3 tribes led by Judah the largest and strongest (always) Then
A family from the tribe of Levi carrying part of the Tabernacle Then
3 more tribes Then
Another Levi family with gold from the Tabernacle then
3 more tribes then
another Levi family with more Tabernacle parts then
the last 3 tribes.

The figures given in Numbers are for men over 20 years of age. add wives, young children and babies, (given large families) we have a huge column 15 - 20 miles long. with the aged and the babies to be cared for it could not have been fast moving. Then the animals had to be attended.
There was a specific camp plan that had to be followed. The Tabernacle had to be erected first. That meant that somewhere 15 miles back the tabernacle parts had to be brought to the front to the camp site. Also the 2 other Levi families had to bring their items. How long did that take at 3 miles an hour. Then the only the Levis were allowed to erect the Tabernacle and only one family cared for the utensils. How long did that take? Only then could the Levi's erect their family tents in a specific square formation around the Tabernacle. Then the tribes could erect their camps - again in a specific square formation around the Levi tents. Having done this they could settled down for a nights sleep. If there were any night left. By the time the families at the back of the file had arrived, pitched their tents, eaten and checked their animals it would have been morning again.
The camp would have been huge

It's all in the Bible. You need to get realistic.

 

God did it to have companionship. The trials of life show what kind of companionship we have to offer. After we graduate.....eternity.

 

I know the teaching. Have you ever considered how stupid that is? An allmighty, omnipotent, omni..... everything else, being has spent all the previous eternity and suddenly decides he is lonely so creates a lifeform so far below him it's like a robot engineer creating an android and expecting it to love him. This creater even has to implant the impulse to love in his creation.

 

We were created in His image and we have a desire to be loved. I know that. I also know you are very cynical. Eat Drink and be Merry for tomorrow you die.

 

That's your view There's more to prove we evolved than the nothing you can show for your idea.

Of course we have a desire to be loved. Some animals have a crude form of love. Watch how a chimp cares for its baby and how the baby clings to its mother. Look how an elephant mourns the loss of its baby, or the herd mourn the loss of a member. We have evolved a greater form.

How do you know God desires to be loved? Don't quote the Bible.

And for your information. I eat normally, I'm teetotal and live a happy normal life. Some people would even consider I live a boring life.

 

That hits me as the statement of a sociopath.

 

I'm cynical that people can believe that the population of a city the size of Chicago, Illinois could survive 40 years in a desert.

 

You can't reason with these brainwashed people. If backed into a corner by facts, evidence, science, and reason their fall back argument is always "God did it."

 

It seems you think we are only a little more developed than a chimpanzee. Do they contemplate their death? Do they
plan for the future? Do they keep a history of events and past ancestors? I freed a snake that was caught in my bird netting.. He was angry at first and tried to strike me. By the time I finished cutting him out, he was gentle and trusting. I guess you might say the thing loved me.,,,,,it's not even close to the same.
I know God desires to be loved because when I reflect on what He has done in my life, show my gratitude and desire to know more about Him....He reveals Himself to me in ways that gives me great Peace and Joy. It is a two way relationship that makes life really worth living and I'm looking forward to the next to come.

 

I have to say I read the Bible every day for entertainment. Today's reading was the Samson story. I hadn't read this for decades and forgotten a couple of things. One was that Samson's father was apparently an angel (a sort of Hercules story). at least one "interaction" between the mother and angel tool place in a field (I guess they didn't have no tell motels at the time). The other was that Samson certainly liked the ladies.

 

As you and the godless would say...... "we are victims of circumstance so we owe no gratitude".

 

Apes are more like humans than you seem to understand. Read Jane Goodall or Desmond Morris.

https://www.theguardian.com/science...-50-desmond-morris-four-experts-assess-impact

 

I don't owe gratitude to an invisible sky man.

 

You are probably also cynical that a loved one could be healed from cancer.

 

Perhaps you should be having this discussion with "apes".

 

How many people that have lost an arm, leg, eye, etc. have have gotten a replacement via prayer. I am talking something that is verifiable, not one of the usual fairy tale claims.

As I think someone pointed out in this thread if cancer is cured by prayer how come millions die from cancer?

 

Perhaps you should understand that aside from an IQ advantage. opposing thumbs, and vocal chords, humans aren't so different than animals.

The discussion I want to have with you is the proof for your claims of a god.

 

Without faith it is impossible to be pleasing to God. Such a discussion would be pointless.