The Bible

“Learn the words of wisdom uttered by the wise and apply them in your own life. Live them - but do not a make a show of reciting them, for he who repeats what he does not understand is no better than an ass loaded with books.”

Unfortunately, I do understand the Bible, whereas you go on what you have been told. You believe that a population the size of Chicago could survive 40 years in a desert under conditions 3400 years ago? You believe that a small city the size of Jericho was a threat to the Israelites? You believe an ass spoke to Balaam or a snake spoke to Eve? You believe that Jahweh lied to Israel when he gave them their understanding of their scriptures? (All scripture is given by inspiration.....). And then changed his mind when the preacher came along, or when Mohammed came along. If god spoke to the Hebrews and Paul, then he could have spoken to Mohammed. Can you show otherwise? You believe Matthew and Luke's genealogical tables of Joseph/Mary?.Go back and look again and check how many were left out. The problem with Jeconiah. In fact the whole problem of the genealogies.
There is no evidence for the early part of the Bible. History shows this. Ancient myths show where some of these stories come from.

The quote you have made from Gibran has nothing to do with knowledge. It has to do with wisdom. Wisdom is not knowledge. It is the use of what knowledge, small or great, that a man has. One of the wisest and kindest men I ever knew had a basic education. But his wisdom exceeded that of many knowledgeable men I have known

 

Hardly. My sister has been healed of cancer - by modern medicine.

 

I am at peace with my life. I find my life worth living but I don't need to rely You don't actually know anything. You just attribute things to your 'god'. It's quite possible if you had never heard of him your life would have been very similar. You reflect the OT. What happened that was good the Jews attributed to God blessing them. And when things went wrong they wondered what they had done wrong. Most religions have the same idea.

 

Bear in mind Marcion, one of the early Christian church fathers, and a compiler of the evolving New Testament canon (c.80-160AD), rejected the Old Testament entirely. How can this be?

Well, looking at Duet. 7:6, we see - according to Moses - God proclaiming the Hebrews as "God's chosen people", who are commanded to "destroy without mercy" (Duet.7:2) the seven nations obstructing possession of the promised land...

Fast forward a millennium, from the bronze age exceptionalism of this Old Testament scripture, to the post-Aristotle cosmopolitan Roman empire of Marcion's time, and we can see why Marcion may have had a problem with identifying the recently deceased Jewish messiah - ironically rejected by the Jews themselves - and proclaimed by Christians as the new Prince of Peace who has come to save the world - with the God identified in the Old Testament passages noted above.

Biblical inerrancy?

This bronze-age Old Testament exceptionalism is responsible for much chaos in our own time; declarations that "Jerusalem is the eternal, undivided capital of Israel" have no basis in history; indeed one of the most iconic buildings on Jerusalem's skyline is the 1300 year old Dome of the Rock, which is a fine early example of Islamic architecture.

Obviously in our time - beyond divisive religious mythology - the correct description of the status of Jerusalem is along the lines of that outlined in UN res.181.

 

There is the principle of "reaping and sowing" but that is just benefiting from the consequences of our actions. I find that the godless tend to thump their chest when good things happen to them and credit it to themselves with no gratitude for the things they have been given.

 

Ah, yes.. flipping philosophical reasoning into ad hominem.. very common, though tiring, from MADA talking point 'debaters.'

It is the age old question of morality. Is it something infused or embedded into humanity, or a human construct?

IF... it is embedded, that implies an Embedder.
IF... morality is a human construct, then there is no morality, just edicts from those in power.

Atheistic naturalism has no basis for morality.. everything is survival and fitness. Any claim of universal, absolute morality NECESSITATES an Infuser of said morality. There is no mechanism or reason for morality in an atheistic system. It is an absurd, meaningless platitude. There is only survival and expediency.

Your pathetic attempt to make this age old philosophical debate into a competition, or a snark fest with a 'holier than thou', self righteous claim of moral superiority, puts the irony meter off the scale.

 

You can dismiss prophecy all you want. But it is NOT an 'error!', as you claim. Matthew's inclusion of the passage from Hosea is there. It was either his opinion, or was Divine Revelation. But it is not an error.

You can set your own personal standard for what you consider 'prophecy,' but nobody else has to follow or accept your decrees.

The claim of 'error!', is unfounded and prejudicial, revealing bias and bigotry from those who pound that propaganda drum with no evidence.

 

Yes, and each point has been expounded upon, and written about, for thousands of years.

Millions, no, BILLIONS of people, over thousands of years, have attested to the bible as a way to know God, or to learn about God.

You questioned the 'value' of the bible, and i included this point as one of many of the 'values' that people have gotten from this compilation of books.

#13 is pretty broad.. perhaps you could be more specific?

And the other questions take a lifetime of seeking and getting glimpses into the unfathomable mysteries of the Divine. Glib answers do not befit a quest for spiritual reality and Truth. I may have opinions or inklings about some of these questions, but it is beyond my pay scale to make dogmatic assertions about those things.

The old poem, 'The Blind Men and the Elephant', comes to mind..

 

I get it, that you have this obsession about the numbers. But you have not presented anything for me to rebut. It is not my job to organize and present YOUR arguments. All you have are vague implications and assertions. You do not quote the passage, or show any facts that prove 'error!'

Unless and until you present the passages you claim are in error, and show compelling facts WHY you see the error, all i see are assertions, without evidence, which i can only dismiss, without evidence.

I'm willing to examine your claim, but i don't want to have to organize your arguments or facts. That is your job, as the one making a claim.

 

Amorality is a logical conclusion of atheism.

How can there be universal, absolute morality, without an Infuser of the morality? All you have in an atheistic system is expediency and survival. And the only morality is just decreed by those in power, which is just a human construct, and not morality at all.

But i appreciate the attempt to flip a philosophical discussion into insults..

 

Ironic.
Progressive ideology is the 'religion' du jour in this generation, and it is indoctrinated with zealous dedication by its adherents.

Christianity has little influence in human institutions, and seldom has, in history. So it seems pretty clear to me where the 'brainwashing!' is taking place.. and the smear campaigns against Christianity, and the constant bashing and bigotry on display, in the public discourse.

Yes, there is the, 'Goddidit!' view/belief/opinion, about the nature of the universe, and there is the 'Nuthindidit!' view/belief/opinion from atheistic naturalism.

So how is it that one set of beliefs, or worldview, is 'brainwashed!', but the other is 'educated!'? How do you know which is which?

 

You can see why these bible people would be attracted to Trump.

 

If there is a God, it is reasonable to project a reason for our existence.. a motive for His Creation. The believer in God may rightly see the Hand of God in his life, and the world around him.

If there is no God, and life is a random accident of nature, there is no reason or meaning in anything, and life is a series of unrelated cosmic accidents.. randomly occurring with no direction or purpose. Morality, 'good', 'evil', purpose, and any moral judgement have no basis, and are empty platitudes.

The absurdity of some atheists amazes me, who try to pretend moral superiority and self righteousness, when it has no meaning in their belief system. Philosophers in times past embraced the rational conclusions of atheistic naturalism, but the 'New!' Internet Atheist pretends morality and purpose where there is none. They want their cake, and eat it, too.

 

Of course there isn't a drop of truth in that.

 

That about sums it up.
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen."
Many of us have the substance, and many of us have seen the evidence. We find it uplifting and like to share it with others. It comes down to choice. For that we are not responsible......never the less, we share.

 

Prove it.

 

That's easy.

 

..then why not embrace the law of the jungle, and stop pretending universal morality? If you are a random accident of nature, with no more purpose or meaning than a protozoa, why the obsession over good and evil?

nor blame, nor hatred, nor hostility. These are irrational responses for a true atheist.

..beyond my pay scale, to prove or disprove the existence of God. I can point to evidence, and relate history and eyewitness stories of supernatural encounters, but empirically proving the supernatural is beyond my ability, at this time.

I can assure and assert my own experiences, but that is all.

 

Well, i thought you might appreciate the quote, since you claimed to be a fan. It seems you miss no opportunity to contradict me, or address my person.. but I'm used to that. It is the MO of progressive indoctrinees.

 

It is the logical conclusion of atheistic naturalism, that philosophers have recognized for millennia. How do you pretend 'morality!' in a meaningless, random accident of entropy?

 

That runs contrary to reality.

 

easier said than done.

 

No, it's easily done. In fact, few things are easier.

 

A useful note of warning against false pride, probably taught in all major religions.