More Americans and most Republicans now believe in climate change

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by MrTLegal, Nov 30, 2018.

  1. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You have actual co2 concentration readings from 60 million years ago? Please post the proof.
     
  2. iamanonman

    iamanonman Well-Known Member

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    GEOCARB III

    ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/paleo/climate_forcing/trace_gases/phanerozoic_co2.txt

    http://droyer.web.wesleyan.edu/Royer_2014_Treatise.pdf
    https://www.geosociety.org/gsatoday/archive/14/3/pdf/i1052-5173-14-3-4.pdf
    http://earth.geology.yale.edu/~ajs/2001/Feb/qn020100182.pdf
    http://www.pnas.org/content/107/2/576
    https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/cab1/810561360762463dddc8e9615dc70b67f05d.pdf
     
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  3. iamanonman

    iamanonman Well-Known Member

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    I find this Dunning-Kruger-like cognitive bias among deniers rather arrogant. You think just because you don't know something it automatically means no one else can possibly know either.

    Let me spell this out in no uncertain terms. Just because YOU don't know the answer doesn't mean the worlds leading experts on the topic are also clueless.

    Why not just google for the answers you seek?

    I suppose I should be careful what I wish for. You may end up getting sucked into yet another fake news science denial website full of misinformation.
     
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  4. iamanonman

    iamanonman Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand this incredulity. The GPS navigation on your phone requires precision on the order of 1 part in 1 billion and must account for general and special relativistic time dilation. We can measure a passing a gravitational wave to within 1/1000th the width of proton all the while having to compensate for the instruments own fleeting quantum jitters. And yet somehow it's impossible to measure the global mean temperature to a measly 1 part in 1000 or determine the CO2 concentration with useful accuracy from 60 million years ago via forensic science and numerous other metrics that wouldn't even be remotely impressive to scientists in other disciplines who deal with measurement problems that require orders of magnitude more precision with far less data to go by.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
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  5. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Why do you have to be ab enviro-wacko nutjob to rake steps to care for the planet? It does not matter if it is turning off a light at night or picking up some litter we could all play a role
     
  6. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    They do

    And it is more accurate than posting about how climate change is occurring because earth has moved into a hot spot in space
     
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  7. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    If you are correct then what were the conditions on earth at the equator?
     
  8. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  9. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Obviously it was way too hot for the Herbivore Dinosaurs or they wouldn't be hanging out in the Arctic Circle.
     
  10. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So why aren't we in a "hot spot in space now"? ....and how do you know we were in a "a hot spot in space" then? I'm not being difficult I just want proven irrefutable facts. The only thing that meets that criteria is the hard fact that there were Herbivore Dinosaurs living 1200 miles from the North Pole 65 million years ago, the fossils say they were.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  11. John Sample

    John Sample Well-Known Member

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    This I don't understand. So I will go with arrow theory.
    1. CO2 levels are lower than in the past. Down arrow.
    2. Arctic Ocean is more land locked so we have less ice melting and less solar heating. Down arrow.
    3. The sun is more luminous. Up arrow.

    I think this in very few words this quote captures the fact that we really have no idea what is going on. We know thermodynamics and how blackbody radiation works. We can measure the incident solar radiation. But there are an unlimited number of variables and we have listed only three, none of which are man-made.

    What we do know for certain is that for billions of years the Earth never became a frozen lifeless piece of rock, nor did it turn into an irredeemable hell. There must be feedback mechanisms that prevent any run away from occurring.
     
  12. John Sample

    John Sample Well-Known Member

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    OK, I don't mean to be rude. But when did we begin measuring gravitational waves? I assume you mean the wavelength is 1000th the width of a proton. What emits these waves? Do they travel at the speed of light? How much energy do they carry? What is the intensity of gravitational waves striking the Earth?

    Color me skeptical, but I don't believe any of that, and I don't believe your cell phone knows general relativity or needs it to locate Wal*Mart.
     
  13. John Sample

    John Sample Well-Known Member

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    LOL. A 300' rise in the oceans would mean Coloradans would not have to drive as far to the beach. Let's surf Nevada!
     
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  14. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    :roflol::roflol::roflol:

    Why don't you tel ME why I should spent a farts worth of time on a ridiculous piece of twaddle?
     
  15. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    How about you post your research and while you are at it post what the temperatures were at the tropics when there were forests on Antartica
     
  17. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    More Americans and most Republicans now believe in climate change

    I've never met anyone who doesn't understand that climate changes.
     
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  18. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, we have a bunch of folks who demand that we should control it so it never changes again.... Perfect example of the "I got Mine" crowd mentality.
     
  19. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Power and control are the mantra of the big government left.
     
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  20. Vote4Future

    Vote4Future Well-Known Member

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    Regardless of what anyone believes on climate change, we the human race are responsible for how we treat this planet and we could surely do better. Because we don't really have records for the world for hundreds and hundreds of years, we probably don't definitively have enough information to say "exactly" what is going on.
     
  21. iamanonman

    iamanonman Well-Known Member

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    GEOCARB contains data from 600 million years ago to present.
     
  22. iamanonman

    iamanonman Well-Known Member

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    Correct and well summarized!

    We don't have all of the answers and the answers we do have aren't perfect. But, our knowledge on the topic is ever expanding. And we are at the point where we can draw conclusions with confidence. Welcome to science!

    There aren't an unlimited number of variables though and scientists think they have the biggest influencing factors accounted for with no evidence to suggest that we are missing something. By the way, the 3 factors listed above aren't the only significant players. I just don't want your take away to be that these 3 above are the only ones.

    Well, actually the paleoclimate record suggests the Earth become entirely (or least almost entirely) covered in ice at least once and possibly as many as 4 times between 800 and 500 MYA. Likewise it is believed that the Earth was very hot between 4.6 and 2.4 BYA. There have been other more muted hothouse Earth conditions with the most recent occurring from 260 to 30 MYA. These hothouse Earth periods are interesting because the Sun was less luminous in the past. This is the crux of the faint young Sun paradox. The paradox is solved in large part by greenhouse gases (primarily CO2). That is why these hothouse Earth eras are also referred to as greenhouse Earth eras.
     
  23. iamanonman

    iamanonman Well-Known Member

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    LIGO

    Everything emits gravitational waves, but it's only the most extreme events that we are currently able to detect. Yes, they travel at the speed of light. They carry a tremendous amount of energy, but by the time they've traveled millions of light years to Earth the energy has spread out so much that's barely noticeable. A gravitational wave will distort everything it's path. LIGO measures the distortions to with 10e-18 meters or 1/1000th the width of a proton. The measurement precision is 1 part in 10e21 or 1 part in a billion-trillion!

    Oh but it does. GPS not only must account for general relativity but it must account for special relativity as well. If it didn't it would be completely useless.

    Advanced Explanation: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5253894/

    Basic Explanation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error_analysis_for_the_Global_Positioning_System
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  24. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Due to the actions of man, which is logical. Obviously if we have ice ages and warm periods in which dinosaurs can survive, the climate changes drastically without any involvement by us...
     
  25. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Show me this comprehensive model that includes all factors that effect climate, I'll wait...
     

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