That's not an answer, it's just a claim. And that claim lacks symmetry. What I mean by that is that, in the absence of further details, it could be equally applied against the woman as well. A claim that could easily be turned back against your side of the argument is useless. What logic is that? It's certainly not coming from YOU. It's seems you're claiming that pro-lifers are illogical in refuting your argument that the fetus doesn't have rights because... the fetus doesn't have rights? = circular logic
They may but , as you've been told a couple of thousand times, the fetus has no rights. Just because Anti-Choicers are illogical doesn't make them right If you didn't cherry pick every post you would have seen the answer: """"""They don't, and even if they had equal rights they are infringing on the rights of the woman they're in and she still would have the right to kill it. Fetuses have NO rights. """""""" ABOVE IS THE HONESTLY UNCHERRY PICKED POST YOU QUOTED It's the answer whether YOU like it or not. Show proof a fetus has rights and I may reconsider (HINT: NO one has ever shown proof a fetus has rights AND EVEN IF FETUSES HAD RIGHTS THEY CANNOT OVERRIDE THE RIGHTS OF ANYONE ELSE)
PLEASE, learn to correctly use the quote feature in this forum. Many of your posts are just a complete mess and you can't expect me to quote the entire thing if they look like that. And seriously, you're angry that I left out the "Fetuses have NO rights" part of your post? That's not even an argument. (The title of this thread is 'Does a fetus have rights?', in case you forgot)
My posts quote just fine, it is YOU cherry picking them, NOT my posting style No, " fetuses have NO rights" is NOT an argument , it's a statement of fact....learn the difference and life will be easier... I am not angry about anything you say or do....is "anger" your go to emotion for everything? It isn't for me.
Can you show a proof that the woman has rights – rights that wouldn't apply to the fetus? Why is the woman's reproductive rights stronger than the fetus's right to life? (setting aside the bolded part of your argument, which I will address separately) Yet you believe the woman's rights can override the fetus. Why then is it so implausible that the fetus's rights might override those of the woman? Again, your argument is lacking in the consideration of symmetry. Everything you say, I could just switch around the words 'fetus' and 'woman' and it would still make just as much sense.
Uh, I do NOT have to prove women have rights....how ASSININE to say they don't...…...they are BORN human citizens of the USA...they have rights. The End. Blah, blah, blah.... Bottom line : Women have rights, fetuses do NOT.
Can we agree all "living things" have a right to life unless there are overriding reasons to end it and those reasons are subjective? A mosquito landing on my arm lost it's right to life, a pig lost it's to bacon and the family dog lost it's after thousands in vet bills. A human may lose his for being a murderer or enemy combatant. A fetus from a few cells to viability has a varying worth and it is the host's (woman's} decision what the overriding reasons are to end the pregnancy prior to viability. 95% of women who have had an abortion feel they made the right decision.
So you are not against requiring the woman to be shown the ultrasound? You want her to make an informed choice, don't you? And what about that 5% ?
A forced ultrasound is an imposition and cruel to the woman. We would like 100% satisfaction wouldn't we? Do we agree rights are subjective?
Why do you insist women are so stupid they don't know what "pregnant" means and need to see an ultrasound? I can't imagine what the women in your life are like but most women know what "pregnant" means no matter what your experience is or your opinion...
What about cruelty to the fetus? Why would it be so cruel to impose on her rights a little bit before she can carry out a cruel act on the fetus?
You have yet to answer my question if we agree rights are subjective but I will answer yours. Was it cruel of me to swat that mosquito, eat the bacon or put the sick family dog down? Would it be cruel to force an ultrasound on a woman she did not want? All have subjective answers to those questions. Is abortion cruel? If cruelty is the act of deliberately causing pain and suffering, then cruelty is not the intent of abortion.
Things can still be cruel even if the intent was not specifically to try to be cruel. Well, to some extent, but it's a matter of degrees. I would not say that all rights are completely and entirely subjective. I don't believe a mosquito is in the same realm as a developing human being, although of course yes, you can draw an analogy and point out a parallel, even if that parallel isn't very close. It's the same type of moral dilemma, but as a matter of degrees it is very very different. If I can draw an analogy, it's like the difference between someone throwing a tiny little pebble at you versus throwing a very large rock at you from the top of a cliff. It's in the same category, but as a matter of degrees, it's very very different. Incidentally the Jains take this to an extreme and use a broom to constantly sweep in front of them so they don't accidentally step on an insect while they're walking. By the way, I find it very very interesting that PETA doesn't oppose abortion.
It isn't imposing on her rights "a little bit"...it's imposing on her rights completely. No cruel act is carried out on a fetus in abortion, it is killed quickly and feels no pain. Why do you insist women are so stupid they don't know what "pregnant" means and need to see an ultrasound? I can't imagine what the women in your life are like but most women know what "pregnant" means no matter what your experience is or your opinion...
Is there cruelty if the pain and suffering is unintentional? A Jain would say you are being cruel for swatting that mosquito, a vegan would say you are cruel for eating bacon and you would say she is being cruel for having an abortion. If it was thought that any pain and suffering was as minimal as possible on balance for the positive outcome then is that cruelty?
What "body" ? kazenatsu said: ↑ What about cruelty to the fetus? Why would it be so cruel to impose on her rights a little bit before she can carry out a cruel act on the fetus?"""" ************************************************************************************************************* It isn't imposing on her rights "a little bit"...it's imposing on her rights completely. No cruel act is carried out on a fetus in abortion, it is killed quickly and feels no pain. Why do you insist women are so stupid they don't know what "pregnant" means and need to see an ultrasound? I can't imagine what the women in your life are like but most women know what "pregnant" means no matter what your experience is or your opinion...
Okay so far we have... Rights are subjective Abortion isn't cruel And the new question, disposal of fetal remains. Wouldn't that be up to the woman and not government? In what manner have the women treated fetal remains in the last few thousand years should be a good rule of thumb.
If a woman is driving whilst she is 14 weeks pregnant and a driver crashes into her car killing her and the fetus, what charges will the other driver face? If a woman has an abortion at 14 weeks, what charges will she face?
The difference is someone else is ending her pregnancy against her will versus her own. The charges aren’t in the justice of the fetus but of the mother.
Abortion is legal, driving into people and killing them isn't. The murderous driver took away the woman's CHOICE. Sound familiar?
A guy stabbed his pregnant girlfriend to death and the unborn child died. He had to serve a minimum of 26 years and 14 for killing the child. A woman, through her choice, goes to the doctor and kills the child. Then goes home. It's a crazy world we live in.
FoxHastings said: ↑ Abortion is legal, driving into people and killing them isn't. The murderous driver took away the woman's CHOICE. Sound familiar? Why didn't you read my post before you quoted it? There is nothing crazy about pregnant women having the same right to their own bodies as everyone else. OR did you think it's crazy to jail someone who murders a pregnant woman???? You: ""A woman, through her choice, goes to the doctor and kills the child."" YES, it is HER CHOICE, not yours, not the government's, not her boyfriend's, not anyone's but hers, it is her body, NO one else's. And NO "child" is killed in an abortion.
