How to end the shutdown.

My understanding is that current law is that those who get caught just get processed and deported, and it's only if they come back again and get caught that they get jailed.

The exception would be if they're waiting for an exception claim to be processed so that they might be allowed to stay, after having entered the country illegally.
Unfortunately the children are held in detention too if their parent is waiting and won't give consent for them to be returned to family members back in the country they came from.

 

"You simply cannot allow the people without morals or honor to control the future- "

Donald Trump is the poster child for that fact, and he reinforces the point every single day.

And why is it that you right wingers are always the first to run to statements like this:

"We're not to far from lock and load here"

Is democracy too challenging to you????

 

Prevent as in totally stop, of course not. It's a matter of (1) sending a message, and (2) resistance to efforts to breach the wall.

If you have a 4 ft chain link, you discourage the neighbors from moseying across your yard uninvited. Still, some will hop the fence.
On the other hand, if you have an 8 ft chain link with razor wire on top, the message is much stronger- and few people will be ignoring it; you are down to dedicated thieves on criminal missions.
If you have electric wire on insulators above that, even fewer ignore it.
If the fence is 20 ft high, tough and equipped with razor wire.... even fewer.

It is a matter of reduction. Bank vaults aren't impenetrable either, but you don't leave your cash lying on the porch do you?

 

Training? Hahaha! Any TSA agent who does show up. There will be some. Promise them a bonus after shutdown is over.

 

We get tired of the adult children telling the grown ups what idiots they are. Unfortunately their parents failed to teach them how to me men and women, so now we have full adults thinking like 14 year old jackasses and telling themselves they are wise. That is not democracy- it's juvenile delinquency in a full-grown person that has no self-respect or values, demanding the world adjust to their demands by throwing tantrums and insults.

I'm thinking we should spank their parents first for not teaching them responsibility and respect for others. Then, we spank the offensive jackasses themselves.

 

Having made a fool of yourself by declaring them worthless, and suggesting that everyone be fired, now you've reversed course and want to hand out bonuses for working for no pay.

Got any other half baked notions?

 

Ideas in general are not bad but you cannot use legal anti-personnel devices on the U.S./Mexican War. Whether you believe it should be or not, breaking in to the United States in order to make money is not a death penalty level offense.

 

", so now we have full adults thinking like 14 year old jackasses and telling themselves they are wise. That is not democracy- it's juvenile delinquency in a full-grown person that has no self-respect or values, demanding the world adjust to their demands by throwing tantrums and insults"

Once again, an accurate description of Donald Trump.

 

Totally.

Why shouldn't we protect our country like the rich protect their communities?

A bank vault helps prevent burglary

A wall helps prevent illegal entry

 

Trump just needs to drop funding for The Wall as a precondition for reopening the Gov't.

Problem solved.

 

Really? Consider that when Trump decided to run for office- he was immediately attacked and insulted by the dems and lefties. IMMEDIATELY. They didn't wait to see anything- just said he was a fool, his candidacy was a joke, and he didn't have a snowball's chance in hell. That is where the confrontation began, and Trump isn't the one who started it. Now-- the left wants "freedom of speech" to make it acceptable to throw garbage at the president every day, but want the president to treat them as if they were respectable. How convenient! They can be asshats, but the president must treat them as if they were respectable???



Most presidents would do so in public, and screw them over behind closed doors- and the average voter would be as naive about what really goes on in politics as ever. Trump calls them as he sees them- and that does indeed piss them off.

Now you can be one of the weasels blaming their own bad conduct on Trump,(and that is the majority of the left and dems) or you can accept responsibility for what ever you say, think, feel or do. Either way- I hold others responsible for those things, whether they like it or not... because that is what is true and right.

If you can't handle that, then you don't deserve a good government or country. Unfortunately, when bad leadership screws thing up, everybody suffers- and that is why Trump got elected; a lot of people are tired of empty promises and BS political schemes that cripple the economy and the people.

This is the typical child mentality, TURN EVERYTHING BACKWARDS AND BLAME SOMEONE ELSE. It's OK for me to lose control of myself, because Trump made me do it???

 

"Consider that when Trump decided to run for office- he was immediately attacked and insulted by the dems and lefties. IMMEDIATELY. They didn't wait to see anything- just said he was a fool, his candidacy was a joke, and he didn't have a snowball's chance in hell."

Was that before, or after he stole birthirism from Orley Taitz and made it all his own?

Oh, and when you decide to run for public office, you can expect to be attacked. It comes with the territory in public life.

Donald Trump always fancied himself a media genius, not unjustifiably either (in his own typically cynical and corrupt way).

He was nothing more than a tabloid celebrity, a buffoon. The guy you book when you need somebody who will say something stupid just to goose the ratings a bit.

And Trump understands television. He is Chancey Gardner's doppelganger!

He knew that if he put on a show for the cable TV networks, they'd give him all the stage he wanted. And he could push them around too. He knows how feckless television network exectives are (and for that matter, tabloid publishers and bloggers).

But Trump the calculating self promoting circus clown has never understood that things are different when what you say really matters.

When you're the clown talking smack on Access Hollywood or the Tonight Show, it's entertainment. It's all BS.

But when you're the President of the United States, what you say matters.

Trump does not want that responsibility. And his is not mature enough to face up to it either.

His childish tantrums, his bullying, his poor negotiating skills, and his very obvious fear of people he knows are smarter then him, are all signs of weakness. And that draws sharks. Whether they be Vladimir Putin, Nancy Pelosi, or Jim Acosta.

"They can be asshats, but the president must treat them as if they were respectable???"

Yes, and that's the way it always has been. If you don't understand that, you don't belong in politics.

Trump has never had a job where he had to answer or be resonsible to anyone but himself (or his father). He never had to worry about his next meal, and he never had to suffer the consequences of his many failures.

"If you can't handle that, then you don't deserve a good government or country."

And when you choose a cheap tabloid celebrity whose only talent is playing a buffoon on television, and give him the most powerful office on the planet, that's exactly what we're getting.

 

All my life I've watched those who won't do for themselves express their resentment of those who do- blame them for doing more; for being a standard they aren't willing to live up to and don't want to see. The fact you are in life's cheap seats and don't understand what's going on is just a sorry excuse for the endless whinings and tantrums. We know; everybody who has succeeded has cheated. They stole their money from the poor, who didn't have any. The rich and successful conspired, they are arrogant,tehy inherited their money, they are not paying their fair share, you do all the work and they make all the money, bla-bla-bla. The BS from the left right now is nothing more than the compulsive need to avoid responsibility for their own behavior. Sadly, the benefit provided by the old generations have so spoiled the last few that damn near none of them know how to act like adults. You shame us all- people, nation, values.

I came up the hard way, my parents much harder- but never took a dime in the way of help from anyone else. My taxes are more than many people's income- I am one of the 10% that 's paying 70% of the bills for the whiney generations. I'm damn tired of not getting something in return for the money- and more tired of the people who benefit from it not having a little gratitude for the generosity this nation has shown them.

Trump isn't supposed to be what you want, and thankfully he is not- He's tough, dedicated, intolerant of BS and coasting and dodging, and yes, at times- he is rude and undiplomatic.
So far I haven't seen him be rude to anyone who didn't deserve it, so I have no complaints about that other than he's too damn nice to the people who DO deserve it.

What the parasitic generations have been happy with has made a hell of a mess out of the nations condition. It's going to take a tough guy to turn it around- and that is why he got elected. My advice is to deal with it. Find some backbone, step up to the plate, stop blaming life on Trump, and deal with it.

 

Physical barriers can and are defeated all the time which means that they give a false sense of security.

To make this point I am going to use the analogy of our own homes. Yes, we have walls, fences, gates, alarms and in some instances bars on windows. None of this deters the would be thief from finding a way through and around these deterrents. The typical response time to a home alarm is sufficiently slow to give the perpetrator enough time to find what they want and be long gone before anyone arrives.

OTOH what does work are sensors, cameras and dogs. Automatic exterior sensors that turn on lights and activate cameras are the kind of deterrent that causes the bad guys to go elsewhere. Dogs barking and raising the household of an imminent threat of a break in are another effective deterrent.

The difference between the former and the latter is response time. The barriers give the false sense of security that burglars use to their own advantage. The lights, cameras and dogs can all identify the miscreant and their immediate location.

So rather than WASTE our tax dollars on an ineffective wall let's use the methods that enable us to immediately identify when there are aliens attempting to cross the border. Drones can patrol with infrared sensors and locate people moving in the area and provide exact coordinates for their location. Using dogs to assist the border patrols will ensure that anyone attempting to get away can be apprehended.

When we put these effective means into operation then the message goes around that trying to cross illegally is just going to result in being caught the attempts will dwindle to a trickle.

None of the above will deal with the visa overstays that are MAJORITY of the problem so we still need a solution to that issue but the border is the one that is causing the most concern and we do have the means to implement an effective solution WITHOUT wasting billions on an asinine wall.

 

Your beloved BLOTUS had TWO YEARS of FULL CONTROL of Congress to fund his asinine wall.

What stopped the GOP from funding it?

 

Alt factoids from rightwing disinformation sources duly noted and treated with the disdain that they deserve.

 

As you know, many of us who are very strongly in favor of border security were never in favor of that 1,550 mile-long "Wall" thing, for all the reasons I typed thousands of words about.

I can see how, if intelligently designed and properly constructed (both of which criteria are in doubt), "barriers" can be an effective aid in overall border enforcement. But it is accurate to point out that they can be broken open, tunneled-under, and scaled over. Your analogy of protecting your house is an accurate one also... which is why even Joe Biden suggests you keep a shotgun.

The futility of nearly all the "barriers" I've seen offered so far makes me return to the idea of deploying anti-personnel devices -- nearly all of which would be non-lethal, but with the possibility that in some situations, lethal "land-mine" barriers could be the only ones that would work. Why? We simply cannot afford to put the many thousands of border patrol 'troops' everywhere that most of these invasions occur. I've suggested 'aerial recon drones', but it isn't feasible to have the many thousands of those things in the air at all times, either.

We've really got a hell of a mess, Te, and the more we dig into it, the more labyrinthine and almost fathomless it becomes. We've tried being 'nice', 'compassionate', and 'looking the other way' for decades. Perhaps truly draconian measures are the only ones that can work now -- gives the intractable political positions that both sides have taken at the Capitol. But it's so bad now that our president, our House leadership, and the Senate big-wigs cannot even TALK to each other -- let alone come to any kind of arrangement or agreement about ANYTHING.

Maybe it's so bad now that the only thing left is for Trump to declare a national emergency, seal the border with Mexico SHUT to everyone and everything, and re-open the government. It's a thoroughly horrible way to do anything, but I tell you in truth that within a week of doing that, MEXICO ITSELF would put an END to the 'caravans', and enter into serious, binding negotiations with us to do THEIR part to stop illegal immigration. The blunt truth is that Mexico needs business with us even more than we need it with them.... If we shut down the border, and all commerce with Mexico, then Mexican businesspeople will go absolutely nuts almost immediately.

Thus, if our own Democrats and Republicans can't get anything useful done, maybe we can 'jawbone' the Mexicans into doing it for us!
I know there's a lot NOT to like about what I've proposed in this rambling post, but do you see any merit in any of it at all?

 

Now that would be one of the dumbest things Trump has ever done but you do know that don't you.

 

You point out the current situation, but you fail to tell us WHY we couldn't use our military police forces to provide airport security. You on the hyperliberal Left have very active, often paranoid imaginations, Tommy.... What do you imagine? That we're going to have the military goose-stepping around in the airports? I saw the United States military, armed and ready for terrorists, in airports during the weeks after '911', but if there was any goose-stepping, I must have missed it.

Maybe you were thinking about the old EAST-Germany...?

Got any pictures of planes crashing into buildings in Germany?

 

What you miss Tom in Springtides summary is the fact he is correct. Now moving over to the part you and the rest of the malcontent lefties don't get is the reality he is your president and it is well past time to accept that fact. Being petty and petulant has gotten you nowhere. You didn't get your freeshit in 2016 and you will get your chance in a couple of years. Until then, grow up and act like an adult.

 

Why do leftist always wear funny looking hats and helmets ?

 

There is a real quick way to end the shutdown.

Ready for the answer?

BUILD the WALL.... When it works GREAT, if it is only partially effective GREAT. Then start immigration reform with some strong teeth in it...

 

One problem with this...
These people will receive their owed back pay, once the 'shutdown' is resolved.

 

The states can call up the national guard for law enforcement.

 

Yeah, I hear that a lot. Most of the anti-personnel devices I envision -- probably 99% -- would be the type that would release tear-gas, or nausea-inducing agents, and others. We've already had to use tear-gas on wanna-be invader 'caravan' mobs at San Diego, so similar devices with auto-release mechanisms could work, too. I'm also a big believer in "rubber bullets", which have worked very effectively in Israel....