Ocasio-Cortez suggests 70% tax for wealthy to fund climate change plan

Yes I know that. That is included in what I posted.

The 2% goal is voluntary and many nations that are below that goal level have increase their share in recent years. But the point is that the US benefits from the arrangement too, and in fact our benefit is very important. NATO itself is very important, -especially now with Russia flexing its muscles again and interfering in many countries via cyber warfare.

 

Nations have been increasing their contributions. Currently 5 countries are meeting the 2% goal, which is voluntary. We have no grounds for griping.

 

This what you posted.

Excluding us, EIGHTY FIVE PERCENT are missing their commitment, in what world is 85% not MOST?

Looks like maybe Trump's not the one that is full of bullshit here.

 

From the CIA's "The World Fact Book", the president of Venezuela is Nicolas MADURO Moros, and, he is head of the United Socialist Party of Venezuela or PSUV. Thus, currently, Venezuela is a socialist country.

If you've never visited "The World Fact Book", you should... it is truly fascinating. Here's a link that will take you directly to "Venezuela", but you can use this website to examine any country in the world: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ve.html

In fairness, there are countries that are very 'socialistic' that I do think are remarkably well-run, and are good places to live, with strong economies and a relatively low cost of living -- Germany comes immediately to mind. Healthcare is excellent there, and costs its citizens much less. Also, there is an enormous difference in the price of prescription drugs! My German friends are always 'stunned and amazed' at how much we Americans have to pay for prescription drugs.

They are very heavily taxed in a lot of 'socialistic' European countries, but, on balance, the citizens get a lot for the taxes they pay. And, as you know by now, my big bitch with things in THIS country orbits around the way we are taxed!

A last observation about Germany... it is the only country I know of where there is (and has been) a generally smooth-working collaboration between labor, corporation owners and managers, and government, for decades! Perhaps it's just easier to do in a country that is much smaller than ours....

 

Right, it's you.

 

Thanks for the more positive post. It's disappointing that Venezuela is regarded as "socialist" when clearly, it idealized Castro's communist Cuba & followed Cuba's example in many of its internal policies. But your post was accurate, and the part on Germany demonstrates the truth that Americans with diverse views can find common ground--as we have here.

My personal objection to American taxes isn't that they're too high, but that they're used for the wrong things. I want them to be used more for infrastructure & national healthcare, etc, and less--FAR LESS--for building ever more effective ways to kill people. I don't think a "great" country uses its military might to inflict its will over less powerful nations.

 

Really? Let's see ......

Policy, when you say "Venezuela is a socialist country", do you mean its ideology and political orientation is that of socialist thinking, or do you mean that its socio-economic system is one of worker ownership and control of the means of production, -i.e. a "socialist economy"?

And XploreR, your own comment about "Castro's communist Cuba" can be questioned the same way.

 

It seems we have some identifiable points of agreement after all, and that is a good thing. We have far too much unreasoning disagreement in the U. S. today, and I wish we all could try harder to find things we can agree on, or at least compromise on.

I share your concern also about WHAT we spend taxes on, and one of the things I'm alarmed about is the horrific amount of money we're spending (and planning to spend) on navy ships. Truth? In the 21st-century, all warships are now is large, floating targets. The fastest nuclear-powered aircraft carrier we have (the best in the world) has a top speed of no more than 40 m.p.h. And, yes, these warships have impressive anti-missile defense systems -- but -- if just ONE of today's anti-ship missiles gets through the defenses, there goes thousands of lives, and billions of dollars, right to the bottom of the sea.

I'll surely catch hell now from people who love our U. S. Navy, and I love the Navy, too. It was absolutely and vitally essential in winning World War II. We could not have won the war in the Pacific, especially, without those aircraft carriers, battleships, and destroyers. But today... in 2019? Surely there's more effective ways to spend those many billions of dollars than by building 'targets'.... Every day, even miserable, piss-ant, 3rd-world countries are gaining missiles that can sink our navy ships....

 

Does it really make any difference, Kode? The government of Venezuela is whatever Maduro and his Socialist Party decide it's going to be. As far as the economy goes, years ago many key economic sectors saw 'nationalizations' by then-president Hugo Chavez. And, to my knowledge, none of what Chavez did was ever reversed after he was gone.

Today? The Venezuelans go hungry and live impoverished lives. The shelves are bare. Corruption thoroughly saturates every aspect of life there. Huge numbers of Venezuelans are leaving or trying to get out as soon as they can.

Link: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-election-nationalizations-idUSBRE89701X20121008

 

Good post. I agree with every point made.

 

Then you can't say what it "is" other than "is attempting to develop....".

It makes a huge difference. Wanting to create a stable, functioning socialist economy and actually succeeding are two very different things since failure is common, indicating that the strategies used didn't work. So when you say "Venezuela is a socialist country", it implies some kind of completion and success, which is not true of Venezuela. Venezuela has attempted to become a socialist country. That is different from "is".

 

I think Venezuela attempted to become a communist country rather than a socialist one. All communist countries have failed, but there are several very good examples of successful socialist countries.

 

The only "communism" ever held as a goal was the of Karl Marx. And what did Karl Marx say "communism" is and how it comes about? He said it is "classless and stateless" society, and that it will happen as classes and the state "wither away" under socialism. So IOW communism cannot be imposed on a country; it "shows up" after generations of life under a successful socialist economy and society.

So it is impossible that Venezuela "attempted to become a communist country".

 

Which ones?

 

I suppose you'd be right if Marx successfully identified & described the ONLY way communist governments evolve. But I doubt that. Humans are a creative species, and generally find many ways to reach the same destination. I know of no "socialist" state that evolved into a communist one, but history gives several examples of makeshift communist states being created directly from pre-existing capitalist ones. But all failed eventually.

 

Most Western European countries--Sweden, Germany, France, Norway, and others.

 

I don't think they would fit Kode's definition of socialist since those are all capitalist welfare states. There is no worker ownership of the means of production.

I think the technical definitions of describing political systems is just about exhausted. These days, when people say socialist, they are just talking about a welfare system, the more generous the more "socialist."

 

Sure, even small communal groups have failed, but we were talking about nations. And regarding whether I'd "be right if Marx successfully identified & described the ONLY way communist governments evolve", can you identify any other guide ever followed? Can you find any other definition or description of a communist society by anyone who is known as a self-proclaimed communist? And by "any other" I mean a description which defines communist society as being a class society with full state machinery?

Communist society, if it ever occurs, will be classless, and people cannot be forced to abandon their class identity or class-based thinking by force or decree. It must "wither away".

 

Both Lenin & Trotsky wrote addendums to Marx, but in all honesty, I don't feel their writings fit very comfortably with the reality in successful Western European "socialist" nations. I don't see socialism as a fixed entity, but rather as a rainbow of possible combinations with capitalism. There have been failed socialist systems just as there have been & are failed capitalist systems. I also think there are successful combination systems existing today, and the best of those are combinations that draw the best from both capitalism and socialism. That's what I feel would improve conditions here in America.

 

Pay for climate change..... Like that's even remotely possible.... But hey, she's what? 27? In liberal circles, she's still a child, and not responsible for her idiocy yet... But next year.....

 

So that's where that "race to the bottom" garbage started....

 

We were discussing communism.

 

I'm not interested trying finesse some nitpicking 'battle of denotation' with you.

Nicolas Maduro is (I know you're fixated on the word "is") head of the United Socialist Party of Venezuela! If that is not "is", then when "is" an is...?

While I can easily understand how some liberals would like to blame the failures of Maduro and his gaggle of socialist thugs and half-wit morons in Venezuela on anything BUT "Socialism", the fact remains that this "leopard's spots" are quite well known, and they aren't about to change....

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Socialist_Party_of_Venezuela

. "Naw, just kidding -- I'm actually a 'Reagan-Republican'!"

 

This IS interesting: you contrive and different story using the word "is" properly and use it to suggest what I said was wrong. LOL!!!

 

She is a very stupid person. The wealthy are the employers for one. And the most wealthy such as Hollywood and congress have enough money to skirt taxes and invest in tax deductible investments. Trump needs to reduce taxes even more on those small businesses paying ordinary income tax on their profits. And reducing income taxes further on those earning under 200,000/year.