Venezuelan opposition recognized as government by Trump

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Doug_yvr, Jan 23, 2019.

  1. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  2. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Had we organized the removal of Chavez, he would have been gone. I and most Americans support a free Venezuela.

    Look, you need not prove it to me that the Democrats want to make this the end days of American freedom. I must keep posting till I pass away to preserve this countries freedoms. I fight Democrats every day of the week.
     
  3. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Even the US is not omnipotent, though some of her citizens appear to be extremely ignorant


    Venezuela coup linked to Bush team
    Specialists in the 'dirty wars' of the Eighties encouraged the plotters who tried to topple President Chavez


    New York Times describes 2002 US-backed coup against Hugo Chavez as “unwise”

    The US involvement is widely acknowledge now. I am surprised you failed to know. I heard about it and more of your inhumane treatment of Latin American people through Pilger's film.
     
  4. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When you rely on the Democrats or their fans called the left wing, you end up fooled.

    You do not accept that all Irish believed the same thing, do you?

    If several men in England promote a thing, do you truly believe it means the government backs that thing?

    Our left is as evil as is your left.
     
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  5. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    A good question, yet people do.
     
  6. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If I had been, I’d have had him arrested and jailed.
     
  7. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    For anyone still kidding themselves that the 2018 elections were free, fair & democratic, a few perspectives. No doubt the apologists will handwave these away in a fit of ideological blindness:

    The Organisation of American States:

    http://www.oas.org/en/media_center/press_release.asp?sCodigo=S-019/18

    This statement was followed by a resolution which is worth reading in full:

    http://www.oas.org/en/media_center/press_release.asp?sCodigo=S-032/18

    Then there was the EU:

    https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/...idential-and-regional-elections-in-venezuela/

    For those interested in the human rights backdrop to the elections, the UN Office of the Commissioner of Human Rights and did a report last year:

    https://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Countries/VE/VenezuelaReport2018_EN.pdf

    While Human Rights Watch reports regularly on Venezuela (check out the sheer number):

    https://www.hrw.org/news?country[0]=9537&page=1

    Basically, the Venezuelan Government regularly arrests and imprisons political opponents - over 300 were in jail during the election. These aren't just low level people, they include opposition mayors and leaders of opposition parties. as of 2017 124 people were killed by security forces during protest and over 500 in extrajudicial killings. Thousands have been injured in protests and over 5000 arrested. Torture is commonplace. Independent media has been silenced or is frequently stood over. The Judiciary operates as an arm of the Government, as witnessed during the illegal usurpation of power from the Congress. For those with short memories, 67% of the seats in Congress went to opposition parties, so Maduro and his lap dog judges simply created a new legislature and bypassed the old one.

    There is more, much more. I urge anyone who wishes to be informed on the issue to read some of these reports. There is no sane universe in which Venezuela can be considered a democracy or the Presidential elections be considered fair.
     
  8. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Russia is not impressed

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ion-leader-declares-himself-interim-president
     
  9. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    https://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/1088197812511215622

    It should not surprise anyone that the reason for this has nothing to do with humanitarian concerns but simply for the US getting its economic way as it did prior to Chavez

    https://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/1088181427122962434

    Unfortunately the Grayzone which has an informed article on this is down. Hopefully this is some innocent error and not more of the attacks we have been seeing on left wing sites.

    Of course the new President of Brazil, Bolsonaro is part of this and is also intending on destroying help to the poor and indulging in mass privatisation and neo liberal politics to help the very few. Like Trump and the rest of the far right and a lot of those who call themselves 'centrists' he ignores Climate Disaster and it is greatly feared is intent on destroying the Rainforests.

    We now know that Climate Disaster is developing much faster than was feared before. Estimates are that unless massive change is made and begun quickly by the end of this century nowhere will be fit for human habitation South of the Scottish/English border. We are looking at the almost certain extinction of human beings because they are so busy being at war and trying to steal what the other has.

    Neo Liberalism is the foundation for this psychological orientation. To it he only thing of value is what makes money and of course war, which adds to Climate disaster appears to be one of the best at doing that. Like it or not, if we are going to save this planet we are all going to have to work together and start doing that soon and that will involve us being involved in far more socialist type policies to achieve it. Contrary to what people say that type of arrangement has far more been the norm in the world. If you want the world to survive, stop attacking other countries for their resources. This is no longer just a position of ethics which most people no longer pretend to have but a necessity for the survival of human beings. Are people going to wait till all is lost before they wake up?
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  10. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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  11. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think you will find they have said that is not their intention. China too is speaking out against this, though with them it may be more that they want debt paid back.
     
  12. For Topical Use Only

    For Topical Use Only Well-Known Member

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    More US regime change terrorism ahead.

    "But it's all so different this time and why do you support evil dictators?!"
     
  13. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Two dictatorial powers coming to the rescue of a third... Wow I'm impressed...
    It's so great that you've the well being of the venezuelian close to your heart from the comfort of your flat in the UK...
     
  14. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    What happens in venezuela may happen in the US pretty soon
     
  15. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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  16. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    The point is that the U.S. doesn't consider Maduro the legitimately elected president. The election was crooked and meaningless. What did the U.S. want to take from Chavez - another illegitimately elected dictator? In my experience, the winner in the battle will be whomever controls the Venezuelan military. It is the Latin American way.
     
  17. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Now now, you have no reason to believe that unless you view "pretty soon" as decades away.
     
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  18. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The US is not much better on that and arguably worse towards non americans and here is the aggressor. You have me mistaken with someone else. I do not live in a flat.
     
  19. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Russian intentions don’t matter - they can’t logistically help Venezuela. Not easy to send green men and leave tanks at the border. That’s just fact. Same with China - it’s powerful on its own turf, but not outside.

    Russians thought they are clever by obtaining assets of Venezuela’s oil company, which gives them indirect control of Citgo in the US. Now maduro is about to pay for his stupidity and Russia will lose the money it loaned and “gifted” to Venezuela.
     
  20. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Well, then humanity might end up descending into another medieval period.
     
  21. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But you do live a comfy life in the UK.
    Socialist are hardwire to not being able to manage an economy and natural ressources. They always **** things up. The first thing they do is replace every competent administrator with people who are best known for their political views than for any measure of competance in their jobs.
    And your hate of the US is clouding your judgment if you think living in Russia or China is better.
     
  22. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I hate Maduro a fair bit but I'd let him govern me in a heartbeat before I let anyone at the EU or UN.
     
  23. Rugglestx

    Rugglestx Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure if we were somehow in 1939 on this forum some people would be defending the German govt and it’s legitamicy.
     
  24. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think that is true. The opposition boycotting an election does not stop it being free and fair. If that was the case all oppositions who believed they would lose would not stand. In the US you do not get genuine news on what the US is up to in Latin America. Free press is not the same as an honest press.

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2015/02/26/us-aggression-against-venezuela/

    https://fair.org/home/exonerating-the-empire-in-venezuela/

    What he took was for the people of Venezuela,it was the resources of Venezuela and if you believe Chavez was not democratically elected then I do not know why I am writing. Venezuela's resources, mass privatisation and neo Liberalism is what it arrange the failed coup for. In the same way as it has been trying to get a coup going against Maduro since he came into being, providing the opposition with weapons and money and doing everything possibly to starve the people of Venezuela. This is exactly the same policy the US has had on the rest of Latin America, creating coups against democratically elected left wing Politicians and replacing them with Right wing Dictators. Why do you think you have your much hated caravans of people needing Refuge? Mainly the result of your own actions.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  25. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Alexa, I fear we live on different planets.
     
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