The Rich Kids of Venezuela

What was left out, which was very important, was the change in attitude, a change in economic philosophy within america, created by what could be called the New Deal of FDR. It basically followed in the vein of Henry Ford, who got into trouble with his competition and industrial moguls early on, that manufacturing paid enough to their producers of these goods so they could afford to buy what they were making, instead of those goods being only afforded by the upper middle class. You saw this in effect post ww2, and this provided the wages for consumption, which in turn provided jobs to make what a war weary, depression weary america wanted to buy. I find it odd that so many times this fact is left out of what aided in created history's largest middle class in america. Consumption, created by wages being high enough to consume like mad.

 

First of all you're quoting from the Daily Mail so it's suspect. Anyway my grandson did know the son of Chavez' general, and at the time he was said to be the wealthiest man in S. America, so Chavez did give perks. This doesn't mean though that the poor were worse off than they were under the American companies and Venezuelan millionaires before him? If it was so, I don't think Chavez would have lasted so long.

I read that Maduro felt secure with Russia's military help, and wanted to come to an agreement - probably over the properties that were nationalized under Chavez, but Washington refused to speak to him. Why? Wouldn't that have been better than risking a war in Venezuela - and one that might embroil China since they are heavily invested there.

As for Chavez, did the CIA kill him? I read they have methods to induce cancer and even tried to use it on Vladimir Putin during some planned meeting. But then again there are a lot of stories about attempted assassinations. The most publicized one is mistaking the airliner shot down by Kiev for the plane Putin was in. Not only was the airliner the same color and size as Putin's plane, but it was in the area that was commonly used when heading to the Russian base.

More recently I read that the helicopter from Egypt that fell in the Aegean near Mount Athos with Church dignitaries might have been another attempt on Putin's life. Anyway this is only speculation. Only the CIA would know for sure.

 

Venezuelan production cost per barrel is almost as low as it is in the Saud. While the price collapse certainly impacted their top line, they were still making a huge margin of 2-300% over production cost. Sounds like they didn't understand sustainability any more than say the city of NY, or Chicago/Illinois.

 

So you found that working your tail off just to see others screwing all day and doing all the drugs wasn't what you'd signed up for? LOL Have had long conversations with a friend who did the same thing. As another poster noted .. the biggest problem with socialism is "human nature". The Pilgrims had a similar problem and starved until they allowed the colonist to have their own plot of land to do with as they please.. the story about the Indians and Pilgrims we were taught in grade school is pure bunk, probably the first inroads of the socialist and early 'social justice warriors" into education. Simply put.. almost nobody is going to bust butt so someone else can take the fruits of your efforts

 

OP supports a President who has spent 87 million dollars on golf excursions while doing everything he can to take healthcare coverage away from Americans who need it. The issue in both Venezuela and America is corruption, not political ideology.

 

The only thing I found surprising were the $2 bills.

 

"very socialist Norway"?

"The Scandinavians embrace a brand of free-market capitalism that exists in conjunction with a large welfare state, known as the “Nordic Model,” which includes many policies that democratic socialists would likely abhor.

For example, democratic socialists are generally opponents of global capitalism and free trade, but the Scandinavian countries have fully embraced these things. The Economistmagazine describes the Scandinavian countries as “stout free-traders who resist the temptation to intervene even to protect iconic companies.” Perhaps this is why Denmark, Norway, and Sweden rank among the most globalized countries in the entire world. These countries all also rank in the top 10 easiest countries to do business in."
https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-of-scandinavian-socialism/

Nordic countries are not socialist, they are small, open economies, and they cherish free trade. Nordic companies that operate in global markets are exposed to hard competition in all forms. Exports and imports of goods are much bigger part of the economies than for the U.S.

Successful businesses turning a profit and creating well-paying jobs are a necessary element of the Nordic model, which also aims to give everybody a chance to study, irrespective of the size of their wallet, and tries to take care of the losers of the hard realities of free trade and competition."

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/402682-nordic-nations-are-not-socialist-theyre-free-trade-lovers

"Norway re-elected conservative Prime Minister Erna Solberg on Monday, guaranteeing a right-of-center government in a country that former United States presidential candidate Bernie Sanders often touted as a model of democratic socialism.

Ms. Solberg and her coalition partners, including the conservative Progress Party – which only four years ago was considered on the right-wing fringe for supporting lower taxes and stricter immigration – gained 89 seats in Norway’s unicameral, 169-seat Parliament. Her main opponent, Jonas Gahr Store, of the left-leaning Labor Party, which won 80 seats, called the results “a huge disappointment.”


Read more at http://redalertpolitics.com/2017/09...servative-prime-minister/#PVmR4t0QZKuV7EmS.99

 

The new deal was a failure in revitalizing the economy. It was WW2 that did that. The change in attitude was a buoyant populace fresh off a huge victory and soldiers returning home to a booming economy in the US. It was the dawn of the move to suburbia and homes were being built by builders using a variation of the Henry Ford method of production line sssembly. The cost of a house fell by two thirds and veterans could buy one for a dollar down. Industry was in full swing and jobs were abundant. This momentum built on itself and continued through the 50s and into the 60s. Then Europe and Japan we're back on their feet and competing for market share and they were young and hungry. Meanwhile US industry had become fat and lazy after having it all their way for nearly two decades and began losing ground to the competition. From that point on it's been survival of the fittest and we lost some of those battles which is a loss for us but a victory for capitalism. May the best man win.

 

There isn't much any gov't policy can do or will do when it comes to a financial driven crash and a long, deep depression. Why? Because it is common knowledge that a financial driven crash takes a long time to cycle out of, especially one as we had in the crash of 29. But we know, from history, that such crashes and depressions will indeed eventually cycle out.

The value of what FDR did, came with a change in economic philosophy, the way of looking at an economic model and what IT SHOULD DO, in the interest of a people and the nation itself. We saw this economic philosophy change obstensibly in the 1980s, into what some call neoliberlism. And if you don't think the economic philosophy that drives and dictates regulations(or the lack of them) law and policy is irrelevant, I could not disagree more. For what an economic philosophy finds value in, will inevitable affect the nation, her people, and what kind of economic model a nation has.

This is just basic common sense and is evidenced by reality, and how the economic reality of working americans has changed, from the 80s onward, to their great detriment, and to the detriment of our middle class.

We know what policies, laws, regulations, business practices were in place that helped to create history's largest middle class, and we also know now what works against the middle class. Economic globalism in order to max out banking and corporate profits, and the elites that own them, is devastating to the middle class and will insure it will not be sustained or grown as it once was.

So, once upon a time, we valued having what would help to create history's largest middle class, over the profits being maxed out by any means necessary, and now we no longer have that value exercised. Clearly the way we have seen profits maxed out has been destructive and devastating upon the american people. And it was not a natural law that gave us this, but choices made by our rulers, on behalf of those who demand to see their profits maxed out at all costs. A choice that was not made with the New Deal paradigm of FDR.

If we had went the economic globalization route post ww2, hollowing out our industrial sector, sending it to the cheapest labor that could be found outside the US, we would not have seen a history making middle class arise here. For that takes middle class jobs in order to create the middle. A service sector based economy as we have now, never creates history's largest middle class, and to argue against this is just nonsensical.

 

Why not have an actual discussion with him about his experience?

This whole "post modernist" thing about having to critique people you are against no matter what is getting old and is just flat out too obvious now.

Don't like the persons opinion? Call him an extremist!

Lovely

 

It’s easy to make insane amounts of money in Venezuela if you are in the club of Maduros close buddies.
With currency manipulation above, you easily buy USDs at super low government rate, turn around, sell that currency, get 14 times more in bolivars than what you have, turn around, buy USDs for those bolivars and voila - you just multiplied your dollars by a factor of 14!

Mind boggling!

 

I arrived full of socialism dreams of Utopia. What I fiund was a bunch of lazy young people just sort of hanging out and partying. Th

In this world wide competition for business American corporations do whatever they have to in order to stay in business and that has led to exporting jobs and reduced wages for workers in America. Unions had a role to play with that in demanding with the extortion tactics of strikes to secure unreasonable benefit packages that make it impossible for US corporations to compete with low wage workers in other countries. Add to that poorly negtiated trade deals and high taxes in US corporations and it's easy to see why we have a shrinking middle class. Trump is doing what he can on this front with new trade deals and reduced taxes but we still face stiff competition and the good ole days post WW 2 are not coming back. All we can do now is make the best widgets at the best price and compete for market share. The days of selling the same outdated car with a new body style and bigger fins are over. Now we have to innovate and up our game and that is what capitalism is all about.

 

If the rules of the game had not been changed, US companies would have had no trouble staying in business. And were able to do just that from our founding, when tarriffs were set up to protect american business and american workers from the extremely cheap labor of the poor parts of this world.

The trouble came in when wall street and the big banks demanded more profits, than they could get from being an intrinsic part of America and her economy, her people. Instead of existing in order to make america strong, healthy, as a part of what created this rich and powerful nation, suddenly that did not matter, the nation was not important, but only their own profits were. And yet you want to make it more complicated that it is, or was.

A change in economic philosophy is behind this change that we have seen. Maxed profits are the only things that matter, and the nation is of no importance to these americans.

 

Socialism is always great if you're at the top.

 

Good point. If oil prices are enough to destroy them, Socialism is far too delicate.

We spend more on "health care" per person than the average global family income. Do you view record profits for the pharm/health care industry while Americans are sicker than ever, a form of corruption?

 

And exactly how is this ANY DIFFERENT than what occurs here with the uber wealthy living an entirely different life than the vast majority of the population.

 

The quality of life of that vast majority matters. We'll never be as rich as Jeff Bezos, but we can get electricity and toilet paper, and we're not eating our pets.

 

My point is that VZ was coming from behind... playing catch-up after years of corruption.

 

May you didn't mean to make that point, but it was a good point nonetheless. Socialism is delicate and can be toppled by minor changes.

 

The collapse of oil prices was not minor.

 

Aaah The American way, now let's start with demonising. The good ol' proven way to brainwash the average American.
The Yank cries about some damn latinos daughter spending her money on champagne in some god forsaken place in latin America, but business as usual when the Bidens take over random companies though out the countries they have invaded or pillaged.

 

I will agree that corporations became more concerned about value on wallstreet than value on main street and put profits ahead of quality. Bean counters took over and that is in large part why US companies lost market share to foreign companies that built better products. This is exactly how and why GM went from one of if not the biggest companies in the world to the joke it is today. The good part is capitalism won and we drive high quality cars today due to the competition for market share GM once dominated.

 

Facts are facts and the fact is these socialist looted Venezuela for personal gain.

 

Wishful thinking. The real reason is not a neocon conspiracy. It's simple theft by the higher ups in the Venezuelan government, and in the process of stealing it, they destroyed the economy. Hugo Chavez' daughter (the one with $4 billion in European bank accounts) was a civil servant. The finance minister under Chavez had around $10 billion in foreign bank accounts.

All animals are equal. Some animals are more equal than others.

 

Sorry, I didn't know you were defending socialism.