Should Muslims convert or?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Canell, Dec 27, 2018.

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Should Muslims convert to other belief systems?

  1. Yes, to Christianity

    6 vote(s)
    14.3%
  2. Yes, to Buddism

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Yes, to Hinduism

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Yes, to Judaism

    1 vote(s)
    2.4%
  5. Yes, to Confucianism

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Yes, other religion

    1 vote(s)
    2.4%
  7. Yes, to science / atheism

    6 vote(s)
    14.3%
  8. Anything but Islam!

    3 vote(s)
    7.1%
  9. No, they are fine

    9 vote(s)
    21.4%
  10. No, you just can't force them out of Islam

    7 vote(s)
    16.7%
  11. No, it is you that should convert to Islam, infidel!!

    3 vote(s)
    7.1%
  12. Other

    6 vote(s)
    14.3%
  1. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The Jews aided the Moors in the conquest of Spain in 711 and they collaborated with them against the Christians until 1491 when Ferdinand & Isabella kicked both of them out.
     
    Canell likes this.
  2. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    Of course not. Nobody gives a buck about you Arabic language and culture.
     
  3. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Muslims protected the Christians of Najran after the Jewish king of Yemen burned 2000 and waived. Jizya. The problem they had with Jews is that the pilgrimage was a revenue stream for them and that included 100 idols at the Kaaba.
     
  4. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    "Temporary" lasted for centuries.
     
    The Wyrd of Gawd likes this.
  5. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    Muhammed eliminated the idols at the Kab'ba and turned all the gods into one, Ar Ramon.
    Once there were muslims, there were no idols at the Kab'ba, just the black stone.
    Once Muhammed started raiding, there were less and less Jews every day.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  6. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    In Islamic Spain, Jews and Christians were tolerated if they:

    • acknowledged Islamic superiority
    • accepted Islamic power
    • paid a tax called Jizya to the Muslim rulers and sometimes paid higher rates of other taxes
    • avoided blasphemy
    • did not try to convert Muslims
    • complied with the rules laid down by the authorities. These included:
    • restrictions on clothing and the need to wear a special badge
    • restrictions on building synagogues and churches
    • not allowed to carry weapons
    • could not receive an inheritance from a Muslim
    • could not bequeath anything to a Muslim
    • could not own a Muslim slave
    • a dhimmi man could not marry a Muslim woman (but the reverse was acceptable)
    • a dhimmi could not give evidence in an Islamic court
    • dhimmis would get lower compensation than Muslims for the same injury
    At times there were restrictions on practicing one's faith too obviously. Bell-ringing or chanting too loudly were frowned on and public processions were restricted.

    Many Christians in Spain assimilated parts of the Muslim culture. Some learned Arabic, some adopted the same clothes as their rulers (some Christian women even started wearing the veil); some took Arabic names. Christians who did this were known as Mozarabs.

    The Muslim rulers didn't give their non-Muslim subjects equal status; as Bat Ye'or has stated, the non-Muslims came definitely at the bottom of society.

    Society was sharply divided along ethnic and religious lines, with the Arab tribes at the top of the hierarchy, followed by the Berbers who were never recognized as equals, despite their Islamization; lower in the scale came the mullawadun converts and, at the very bottom, the dhimmi Christians and Jews.

    BAT YE'OR, ISLAM AND DHIMMITUDE,

    The Muslims did not explicitly hate or persecute the non-Muslims. As Bernard Lewis in The Jews of Islam, 1984 puts it:

    in contrast to Christian anti-Semitism, the Muslim attitude toward non-Muslims is one not of hate or fear or envy but simply of contempt

    An example of this contempt is found in this 12th century ruling:

    A Muslim must not massage a Jew or a Christian nor throw away his refuse nor clean his latrines. The Jew and the Christian are better fitted for such trades, since they are the trades of those who are vile.
     
  7. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Actually Muhammad got rid of all the idols except the Virgin Mary.
     
  8. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    The Visigoths weren't Catholic.
     
  9. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    FAIL again.

    All the Idols.
     
  10. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    Isn't it a little early to be hitting the sauce, or were you up all night.
     
  11. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Nope. He kept the icons to the Virgin .Mary. look it up. I thought everyone knew that.
     
  12. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    The Visigoths were pagan who slowly became Arians. You can look that up for confirmation.
     
  13. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    NO, You look it up.
    I know he got rid of them all.
    Idols are not allowed in Islam.
    Draw a picture of Muhammed and walk through Saudi Arabia with your friends.
    Besides, there is no record of this.


    ISIS wants to destroy Mecca, because the black stone is an idol.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  14. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Of course there is a record of it. Read the Koran. In the early years the new Muslims fled to East Africa to escape persecution and we're protected by the Christian king so Muhammad had a soft spot for Christians. That may be why he protected the Christians of najran after the burnings.
     
  15. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    LOLOL
    You just make this sh-t up as you go along.

    show me that in the Qur'an. That's not in the Qur'an.

    Besides the Qur;an is 9th century
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  16. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    The king was the Christian king of axum and it was known as the first higra. Ignorance is often rude.
     
  17. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    LOLOLOLOL


    Show me, where is this in the Qur'an. don't just make more sh-t up.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  18. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So from your own source we can see that the Christians were antisemetic.
    Here is the source which you forgot to provide in case anyone else wants to read the entire article.
    http://www.jewishwikipedia.info/musliminvasion.html

    Oh and I will add this little bit from the same article just for perspective.

    A Golden Age of Religious Tolerance?

    Islamic Spain is sometimes described as a 'golden age' of religious and ethnic tolerance and interfaith harmony between Muslims, Christians and Jews.

    Some historians believe this idea of a golden age is false and might lead modern readers to believe, wrongly, that Muslim Spain was tolerant by the standards of 21st century Britain.

    The true position is more complicated. The distinguished historian Bernard Lewis wrote that the status of non-Muslims in Islamic Spain was a sort of second-class citizenship but he went on to say:

    Second-class citizenship, though second class, is a kind of citizenship. It involves some rights, though not all, and is surely better than no rights at all...

    ...A recognized status, albeit one of inferiority to the dominant group, which is established by law, recognized by tradition, and confirmed by popular assent, is not to be despised.

    Bernard Lewis, The Jews of Islam, 1984
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  19. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, right. Please, watch carefully.

     
  20. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sorry there is a bit of a difference between Jewish Wikipedia quoting a respected historian. I watched that guys video last time, lectures in your front room and no knowledge is not the way to go. Get hold of some proper history books rather than that charlatan!
     
  21. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    Actually he is pretty good.

    Funny how everyone who reads and studies about Islam, all come up with the same thing.
    Most of what he says, I already knew about from reading Islamic text.

    It's people who know nothing about Islam and Muhammed who cry foul.
     
  22. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    I believe I brought up many times the Jews and Muslims joined forced against the Christians.
     
  23. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So on the first crusade there were only two battles on the way to Jerusalem?
    What number of people are required for it to be classed as a crusader battle and is that the same number as he requires for a Muslim battle?
    Why has he included Muslim on Muslim battles but not Christian on Christian battles?
    Who uses a graph with a timeline unevenly spaced other than him?
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  24. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I never mentioned that you did not, why do you bring that up?
     
  25. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    There are no Hindu on Hindu battles either.
    Nor is there Norse on Norse.

    It's about Muslims, not any other religion.
    Why do people constantly bring up excuses.

    when I listed them last month, that was number 4.
    change the subject, blame another religion.
     

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