Hezbollah fully banned in the UK

Yeah, I agree with that. So if foreign influence is your issue, then what's your problem with banning Hezbollah? Aren't they a foreign power?

 

We could also ban the Us Republicans.

 

Well the biggest single issue is that Hezbollah the political party make up a sizeable part of Lebanon's government. Also the UK had an investigation into the political party which concluded that the Political party was sufficiently separate for us not to proscribe them. NOTHING has changed since that report, so why this now?
We only achieved peace in Ireland after years of refusing to talk to Sinn Fein, many would agree we should of talked earlier, we should not make the same mistake again!

 

I'm guessing its Brexit

 

I think it is Brexit being used to smuggle another Israeli policy through, that and the fact that the lies told about labour antisemitism make this a difficult time for the opposition to be seen to be against it. Already we have had a labour politician grilled on question time about why Labour did not vote for it, rather they abstained. I think there will be lots more Israeli policies being pushed through while Labour is falsely accused. Expect a move against BDS soon, if Labour object you will here the crys of antisemitism from the fifth columnists.

 

With BDS the Government has already made it's move. It made it maybe a couple of years ago saying that it was against the law for councils in England to support it. They continued following their conscience and I think it was some Jewish Group took them to court. English courts did not agree that it was against the law for English councils to engage in BDS. They noted that we were a democracy and were entitled to follow our conscience and follow our chosen political way.

Now, when I said Brexit, I was only thinking of us becoming even more the US poodle. On the one hand I know the Tories are funded by several, or maybe not so many when truth is told,. Israel supporters. They are the people who came in and funded the Tories at a time when they could have not had enough money to continue functioning. Channel 4 did a couple of documentaries on it some years ago. This also resulted in our favouring things which ended up with obligations to Israel. Cannot remember specifics but it was like that. Hell it is looking like this is where the corruption came from in the Tories and indeed with Blairite Labour. Corbyn managed to get the Labour Party funded by Labour Party Members who it has a responsibility to rather than paying foreigners. Wow, just thinking of that as a possibility is horrendous on the one side but also looks credible on the other...

So after what you said I put in a search 'UK strengthening bonds with Israel for Brexit' and look what I found on the very first link

https://www.cufi.org.uk/cufi-latest/in-2019-we-will-not-remain-silent-for-israel/

CUFI =Christians United for Israel an American group. Wonder what else will come up but you see above they have been pushing the UK to ban Hezbollah!

Check out whose face is on this page

https://www.cufi.org.uk/

 

So on Israel and Brexit another.

Do you remember May saying we should stat celebrating the Balfour Declaration?

https://www.thejc.com/news/news-fea...has-been-good-to-us-and-we-give-back-1.444404

What with chlorinated Chickens, GM crops and hormone beef - all of which we must not be told about while our details must be allowed to be sent to foreign countries without us knowing to please the US...and relying on....Israel...to be able to do trade deals....people wanting Brexit so England could be in charge of its own choices were surely having a laugh.

 

So true. I just read an excellent piece by Camillo Mac Bica on this general subject. https://www.veteranstoday.com/2019/03/01/preserving-the-integrity-of-the-u-s-electoral-process/

 

Some more signs of the Tories snuggling up to Israel and presumably why they and Friends of Israel are trying to destroy Corbyn and by that destroy UK democracy.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/on-eve-of-brexit-uk-exports-to-israel-soar-by-75

and

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/uk-and-israel-sign-in-principle-post-brexit-trade-deal-1.479054

How England has gone down the drain. Brexit has left her like a third world country having to suck up to those a country with morals would leave well alone. Fox of course claimed that Britain shared values with Duterte! The one thing which gives me some hope apart from Independence for Scotland is that there is a very good chance Climate Disaster will wreck all this - or maybe Corbyn being elected.

 

They got the most votes, eh?

Sounds a bit like another "legitimate political party" from modern history.

I'm not especially anti-Hezbollah, but your reasoning here is bizarre.

 

RiaRaeb you have frequently suggested that all this is eventually going to rub off as genuine antisemitism against Jews. I have more than once heard people suggesting that British Jews are being used in this. At first glance it may appear that it is Israel who is undermining the UK - for instance we have the Al Jazeera videos clearly showing that Israel is interfering with politics in the UK and not only that we then see the Tory Party turning a blind eye to this. I remember at the time people suggesting the Tories had been warned they would lose the Jewish vote if they did anything about it (More British Jews vote Tory than Labour) and we can add to this that the Campaign Against Antisemitism, clearly an Israel group was set up during the 2014 Gaza offensive to suggest Britain had overnight become a bastion of antisemitism as well as the newly revived Jewish Labour Movement having as Director a woman straight from the Israeli Embassy whose job was to undermine deligimisation of Israel. At first glance it looks like Israel is taking over the UK. It looks like Jews for the sake of the Israel are destroying the Corbyn Labour Party.

I am not denying for one moment that Israel has an interest in silencing Corbyn with his sensitivities to the rights of Palestinians...but maybe we should ask whether the UK would really be allowing Israel to act from it's Embassy as it has been doing - or whether in this instance it just so happens that the view of both come together.

On Free Speech on Israel I have found an excellent article based on another longer more in depth one. I should spend a couple of days looking more clearly and letting things sink in but I believe this is such an important issue we need to start bringing it into our thinking asap. We know that Israel wants Britain to be supportive of Israel. We also know that the key Jewish Agencies in Britain claim to support Israel 100% though I would argue that prior to the hysteria of antisemitism being claimed to emanate from the Labour Left, more recently Institutional in the Labour Party, this was very much in the decline. I remember a few years ago when a man who was expected to stand for Director of the Board of Deputies said he was not because he could no longer keep quiet about or support the actions of Israel and this was greeted with a cheer and round of applause ...so I suspect that British Jews left to their own devices were moving away from Israel. I seem to remember their leaders could only get a handful of people to cheer on Israel during that 2014 war. In another thread I also pointed out that when the Campaign Against Antisemitism began during the 2014 Israeli assault on Gaza it was more the hard Right and Muslim haters who were supporting it not Jews, indeed they were booed at so maybe we have been missing a particular dimension of this and that is what these article are about - using identity politics and fear to rebrand British Jews as Zionist Jews the reason for this being that Britain still sees Israel as a Colonial Project - her little Ulster, even if she shares that with the US but even more, the way in which the UK is using Jews to allow racism against Muslims and denying the very real antisemitism there is from the far right is itself antisemetic. GCHQ would soon stop any Israeli meddling it did not want and In all this I think we should also remember the Integrity Institute.

If you have time please try and read them as they give an important dimension I believe we are not as yet fully understanding and indeed one I would say we need to in order to be able to work constructively against and eventually more creatively through this attack.

Free Speech on Israel's introduction to the article which first came from the British Committee for the Universities of Palestine (BRICUP) I seem to remember they also have an article of Williamson written prior to his suspension

https://freespeechonisrael.org.uk/levidow/#sthash.E8Gf6XVw.FOkwNTfi.dpbs

The article itself​

https://freespeechonisrael.org.uk/levidow/#sthash.E8Gf6XVw.FOkwNTfi.dpbs

Their main source given

http://www.historicalmaterialism.org/articles/judaism-zionism-and-nazi-genocide

 

Thank you Alexa, it has long been my fear that genuine antisemitism will become prevalent in the UK and indeed throughout Europe, I will read and digest the information you have provided and reply. Lots of time on my hands!

 

Hezbollah most certainly are not a foreign power. They're a political party active in Lebanon.

Meanwhile, Hezbollah have no direct impact in the UK and don't "threaten" the British people as the Home Secretary has inaccurately implied in the OP. That has been the whole point I've been making.

A better question would be to question your attitude about them?

The fact is that Israel directly does influence the UK and interferes in British Parliamentary process - Hezbollah doesn't.

 

Those who were out in the Lebanon in 82-84 as part of the peace keeping force knew who was the greatest danger the Israelis or the Arabs being masacered in Sabra and Shatila by the Christian Phalange while the Israelis watched. Maggie sent our troops out there, how quickly that was forgotten!

One factor that probably saved British lives was the fact that the UK government – like Italy’s, but unlike the USA or France – was determined that it would remain impartial. The security of the US and French MNF contingents was compromised by the fact that both the Reagan administration and Francois Mitterand’s government became embroiled in the civil war by effectively aligning with Gemayel; the fateful step being the shelling of Druze positions in the Shouf mountains by the US Navy on 5th September 1983. Both the USA and France were also the targets of proxy warfare by Iran – the former because it was the Islamic Revolution’s ‘Great Satan’, the latter because it was aligned with Saddam Hussein during the Iran-Iraq war – hence the Hezbollah suicide attacks in October 1983. In contrast, British officials recognised the fact that Gemayel’s government existed in name only, and that as far as Shiite, Sunni and Druze factions were concerned both it and the Lebanese Armed Forces were just another faction in the civil war. BRITFORLEB remained above the fray, and its headquarters in Regie Hadath became a useful location for brokering local ceasefires. The lack of an overall command structure for the MNF meant that the Thatcher government alone shaped the British contingent’s role and rules of engagement, the latter being very much limited to self-defence.

https://defenceindepth.co/2017/09/0...nd-british-peacekeepers-in-lebanon-1982-1984/


You will not find me praising Maggie for much but the impartiality we showed there was right and should be remembered by the shower in government know!

 

You were part of that peace-keeping contingent?

For my sins back in those days I worked for a discrete unit of a well known British bank that financed weapon exports. We enabled the Phalange with mortars etc., on behalf of a well connected British private arms dealer. The Phalange were not a nice bunch by any stretch of the imagination. But bankers only ever see profit. They never consider human costs or the pain and suffering that their greed enables.

I never cared for Maggie. She was considered to be a spook's "moll". Intelligent factions in the UK and Europe shoehorned her into No.10. I knew someone who had an open door entre to No.10. Former SAS. Former... much, much nastier. Now deceased. He died in Scotland exactly three days before his former spook boss died in his bed from illness. Fate is such a strange thing, eh.

Thatcher and HMG armed both Iraq and Iran and left them to bleed each other in the so called First Persian Gulf War. Very cynical. So did the US as I recall.

In the close run up to Operation Desert Storm, Maggie signed off on sending 40 train wagon loads of 115mm sabot-discarding anti-tank shells to Saddam - via the fig-leaf "Jordan Package". These were shipped aboard the MV Dara and arrived at Aqaba port and trucked immediately to the Iraq border just before the launch date of the British 7th Armoured Corps thrust into Iraq. The consignment of 115mm shells was originally to be accompanied by anti-tank missiles and someone, presumably, convinced Thatcher to dis-include these more deadly munitions from the MV Dara shipment, which she did at the very last moment.

Sometime later I was told by a chairman of a major British arms company that his son, who was with the 7th (although I may be misremembering his unit) had found some of these shells in Iraqi positions that faced their advance. Fortunately, most were Iraqi conscripts and sensibly hoofed it when they heard the tanks coming.

From what you say above, I imagine that top level UK military brass made sure their men in BRITFORLEB were kept relatively safe and secure and impressed this need on No.10. But I could be wrong on this. But the foregoing shows that Maggie didn't really have any moral scruples about these sorts of things, which is why I reach the conclusion about the top brass insisting.

 

Bizarre? Interesting... because these election were rated by your and so far all governments on this planet to be legally and democtarically correct.

Maybe bizzare that they are a legal political party in Lebanon for you ... but they are at least and so a bizarre fact and no bizarre reasoning!

 

Wait, are you talking about Hezbollah or the Nazis? Or both?

 

Lame ... very lame answer with this Nazi hint! But wait...

What is the topic of this thread again ... and are you simply ignorant to accept or understand an uncomfortable fact and truth at least?

Hezbollah is Lebanese and they are in Lebanon a regular party and they won in last regular, legal and democratic election and there were all the time some ministers of Lebanon from Hezbollah and there will be again ministers of Lebanese government from Hezbollah too.
And this election was by your country rated to be fair, legal and democratic! THIS IS THE FACT and makes your secretyry troll here to be a fool ... no matter you like it or not!

 

I agree with Mandelus. A very, very lame answer - actually a provocation.

 

It was a little lame, but you were missing my point.

What fact am I not accepting.

Yes. You're not arguing with my points, you're talking to someone else or something. Read my posts, please.

 

Like I told him, he wasn't getting the hint.

The fact that a party is democratically elected and "got the most votes" isn't as meaningful as he seems to think.

 

Yes it is if you believe in the democratic system. Clearly, you do not.

But evidently you prefer to insult someone insinuating they have something to do with their nation's past history - when he wasn't even born then.

I find you incredibly distasteful.

Goodbye.

 

Depends what you mean by "believe in the."

What are you talking about?

How hurtful.

 

It looks more like the UK govt are mocking Israel with this trivial ban.

"Here, have a stale crumb..."

 

No the British Government is well tagged up with Israel, trying even to take away our democratic rights re BDS in order to allow Israel to continue evicting the Palestinians from their homeland., The British Government is quite happy for Israel to plan in the UK to 'take down' MP's who feel concern for the Rights of the Palestinians when such MP's are even in their Party. The Government is happy to allow people working from the Israeli Embassy to advise MP's on what to ask the PM at question time so that they get a commitment to support Israel in 'whatever she does' - and those were the words used. Our Government is complicit in anything Israel does, it stands behind Israel unconditionally and that is a large part of why they like to torment Corbyn and Labour Politicians with wrongful accusations of antisemitism - something which as I was reading someone else the other day say is as grievous a crime as antisemitism itself.