Race and Socioeconomic factors more effect on murder rate than gun control

Can we admit that other factors, like race and socioeconomic income levels, have a lot more to do with gun homicide rates than the amount of gun control laws do, when comparing across different countries in the world?

We can even see that clearly within the U.S.

Switzerland is a very middle class country, with noticeably higher standards of living than its neighbors. (It's also harder to become a Swiss citizen than it is in other European countries)
Then you have countries like Brazil, Mexico, South Africa, where there's a lot of diversity and poverty. Their gun control laws don't seem to help them, their gun homicide rates are higher.

Traditionally, in the past, gun control supporters have always seemed to want to point out that those White[r] middle class countries in Europe and Canada with all their gun control laws have lower gun homicide rates than the U.S.

 

Sure we can, after we get rid of all the evil guns.

Until then THE GUN DID IT

 

Every time someone posts this fallacy in another thread, I'm just going to quote them and place it here.

The United States also has more diversity and a lower middle class percentage than any of those "developed nations" which you are selectively referring to.

By "developed nation", you're conveniently leaving out all those other countries in the world that are not White and middle class, or Northeast Asian (Japan, Korea, China, lower crime rates).

Question: Saudi Arabia is a developed country that doesn't have strict gun control laws, #6 in the world in guns per capita. Why are their gun homicide rates substantially lower than the U.S. ?
(I did a quick calculation and the rate in the U.S. is over 50% higher than it is in a medium-large sized city in Saudi Arabia)
Not only that but Saudi Arabia isn't exactly a society that celebrates non-violence, so one might expect with all those guns their gun homicide rate to be higher. ​

 

When someone posts your fallacy I will always respond the same way. If you want to use Saudi Arabia as an example would you be ok if we had all the same gun laws they currently have?

 

Europe has lots of diversity.

How silly

 

Is there a European country that has as much diversity as the U.S.?
(Maybe I should clarify, 5 years ago)

 

I only used Saudi Arabia because they were the best example I could think of. Do you have in mind any other developed countries that have fewer gun regulations than the U.S.?

Well since there are none, I guess we don't have an optimal control to compare.

 

Let's go with the best example you can think of.

Do you want America to have the same gun laws as Saudi Arabia?

 

How is diversity relevant?

 

The UK did not traditionally have as much diversity as the US.
But maybe the area around London will soon.

Gentrification in very high price areas though has the opposite effect, since lower income segments of society can not afford to live there. So no doubt that may be a counterbalancing factor.

 

How is diversity relevant

 

Because too many individuals operate on the basis that too many white individuals in any given area is a bad thing, and it must be balanced by inclusion of other races, regardless of how that balancing occurs.

 

Well, I don't like to bring it up, but it's relevant if you're going to try to claim that country A has more gun homicides than country B and claim it's all because of the gun laws.

Many Latin American and African countries have much higher gun homicide rates than the U.S., but then again you don't include them because they're not "developed".

 

Well why is it relevant? Are you saying that countries with low diversity such as African nations have low gun deaths? Is that your claim?

 

South Africa has the most diversity on the African continent and probably has the highest gun homicide rates.

 

And the other countries there with low diversity have low gun deaths? You seem to be making a point about diversity???

Do countries with low diversity....such as Hispanic countries....have low gun deaths?

 

What many refuse to acknowledge is that different human races do not appreciate being forced to associate and interact with one another. It is this forced association that breeds violence. The greater the degree of diversity, the greater the degree of violence that results from such.

 

Hispanic is not really a race. Most countries in Latin America have high levels of diversity, although the situation is a little complicated. (Most of the people are of mixed background but the mixing does not get rid of diversity because the mixing does not happen evenly, and the population still tends to split into different informal segments in the society)
You can read more on that in this thread: history of race in Brazil

 

Is black a race? Are black countries with low diversity supposed to have low gun deaths in your theory?

Tell us more about this diversity theory

 

Probably both race and diversity are factors.
Nigeria, even though its rates are high, still has much lower rates than South Africa.

 

So it's a theory that may or may not be true.

We have first world diverse countries of all different cultures that have much lower gun deaths than us with the common factor being gun control.

So that must be a factor

 

Like all theories.

The problem is none of those countries have as much diversity as the U.S.
Racial composition & diversity could also be seen as a common factor, in that situation.

 

Prove it

 

You just said countries with low diversity have high gun deaths like Nigeria.

Why?

 

White babies have already now become a minority in the U.S. Any other country where that's now the case? Europe, Canada, Australia, any of those countries on your "developed" list of countries? Are Asian babies in South Korea a minority?

I don't need to go to any lengths to prove anything, it's obvious.