The F-35 is Set to Receive Most Expensive Software Patch in History

I don't know enough about it to defend or attack it. We had the endless back and forth, everyone criticizing the cost and design flaws of the M-1 Abrams — and in the end it became one of the deadliest and most durable tanks in history.

 

And F16s. There is a push in some defense circles for a gen 4.5 aircraft that is a non stealthed older design with 5th gen data systems and countermeasures. I think this is the way of the future for the front line aircraft while pure 5th gen and later stealthed are reserved for first strike and deep penetration missions.

This is the entire problem with the F35. They tried to replace 7 purpose built aircraft with a single platform and its just not working. The plane performs very well in all things, but it masters nothing. In every mission it undertakes it will have some form of glaring deficiency that was caused by the need to perform a different mission.

You stole my thunder with this one. There are 3 major obstacles that need to be overcome before drones are ready real world use. Communications security, resistance to jamming, and latency. At least publicly, China is ahead of anyone else in the security arena with their use of quantum cryptography.

 

I have long favored the F-22 Raptor. A very nimble fighter.

 

All of this reminds me of Admiral Connolly's comments about the F-111 in Sen. Stennis' hearing on the same: "Mr. Chairman, there isn't enough thrust in all Christiandom to make a Navy fighter out of that aircraft." The very same issues.

 

Its a remarkable aircraft and believe it or not the F35 is further ahead in data integration which is everything.

One thing these guys are capable of is leading a screen of conventional aircraft and relaying info back to the group-like the location of all enemy radar, anti air, and aircraft.

The screen then all launch at their targets, and any responding enemy air is hit from behind by the stealth aircraft they never knew was there.

The rest of the world now gets to worry about how they would defend for it.

 

Well, they can also improve the avionics for the F-22. Still the story of the F-35 is remarkable.

 

What other aircraft are there that can do what the F35 can?

If you'd stay teen fighter, none of them are stealth.

The speed and stealth of this aircraft are the LEAST fascinating things about the design.

Data integration is where its at.

Not sure why your comparing an air superiority platform like the YF-23 to a multi role attack aircraft like the F-35.

And for such an unpopular aircraft, it sure is selling well.

In 20 years it will be the worlds most numerous fighter aircraft, and our allies will use it for decades after we do.

 

Not sure they need to. The rumor around the F-22 fighter community is that war games involving the F-22 with forces outside the US or with other branches (The US Navy) are very limited. In other words, the full capabilities of the F-22 are never put on display. They say it's also causing bad habits to be formed by these pilots.

I would love to see the capabilities of both of these fighters put on full display. I think @US Conservative is right though, In 20 years it will be the worlds most numerous fighter aircraft, and our allies will use it for decades after we do. Especially the portion about our allies using it. I suspect in 20 years it will have a lot of combat experience as well.

 

I followed the F-22 from Development to fighter status.; I guess it is my favorite. But I will brush up on the F-35. I am not ignorant about it, but need to brush a lot more.

 

That’s a pretty in-depth post. Very interesting.
What’s your opinion on A-10, and if it should be replaced?
As a ground pounder, I was really satisfied with the preformed of the A-10, on the few occasions we called them in. But, I wonder what industry insiders think of this weapons platform.

 

I don't agree much with you politically, but what you say here is correct.

In a sense, the reason for designing and building "next generation" aircraft is not so much to create that "next gen" platform - but to RETAIN the ABILITY to push the technology forward. If America ever said, "actually, this one is good enough", within a generation there would be no engineers capable of designing the next generation. Of pushing the technology forward.

The processes for designing a new generation of aircraft would be - if not lost - drastically degraded. And within a couple of decades China would be on the cutting edge of that technology.

 

Seriously, how has Lockheed not been nationalized? They continue to produce lemons, they utterly fail to meet their budget limits and projected costs, and then they charge the taxpayers double to fix their mistakes.

The US government needs to take the approach that if a contracted fails to deliver a functional product, the government then seized all ownership of trademarks, patents, and designs, and can take those proprietary designs to any other contractor of their choice.

 

Ironically, the F-35 can only carry 2 JDAM's to remain in stealth mode. Their weapons bay is tiny and anything housed externally removes it's stealth capability.

I've been a proponent for the F-35 as I honestly felt it was WAY inferior to the F-22 (and still is in my humble opinion, just in certain areas) but after reading pilot testimonies, I'm changing my opinion of it's versatility.

I'd say let Israel mess around with it a few more years.. They will surely perfect it. Look what they did for our Patriot system....

 

Like

A second source now states:" the program’s long-term $1 trillion cost"



Yet Another Costly F-35 Glitch That Won’t Be Fixed Any Time Soon

By Martin Matishak


"The Defense Department’s multi-billion dollar F-35 Joint Strike Fighter effort has hit a new snag, and it’s one that could take anywhere from a year to 18 months to fix, according to the program’s chief.

Earlier this month Defense News reported the Pentagon had learned the fifth-generation airplane’s ejection seat could cause fatal whiplash for pilots weighing under 136, despite the fact that the seat was designed to handle any pilot weighing between 103 and 245 pounds.

"The discovery prompted the Pentagon to restrict any pilot that weighs less than 136 pounds from flying the aircraft until a solution was found.

Air Force Lt. Gen. Christopher Bogdan, the head of the F-35 program office, told House lawmakers on Wednesday that officials are using “known fixes” to remedy the problem, though they’ll take some time to implement.

With a price tag of around $400 billion, the F-35 is the costliest weapon in U.S. history; the idea that the severely delayed procurement effort suffered another technical glitch on a support system many believed was safe set off alarm bells on Capitol Hill, even among the fighter’s supporters."




""Obviously [the seat] is not performing … This is supposed to be life-saving, not life-threatening," House Armed Services Tactical Air and Land Forces subcommittee chair Mike Turner (R-Ohio) said Wednesday.

"
Bogdan, rattling off a laundry list of ways program officials intend to fix the problem, including making the plane’s helmet lighter, seemed relatively unconcerned about the latest hiccup.

That’s not a cheap proposition. The helmet, built specifically for the F-35, costs around $400,000. Right now it weighs 5.1 pounds; technicians estimate they need to bring that down to 4.8 pounds, according to Bogdan.

He said they planned to leave the helm’s complex suite of technology alone and instead focus on replacing its straps and cushioning with “something lighter and stronger,” as well as removing its double-visor for day and night conditions. Pilots would have to physically switch them out instead.

Another fix is to install a switch on the side of the ejection seat that allows a pilots to set it for “light” or “heavy” weight, Bogdan told lawmakers. He didn’t give an estimate for how much the new fixes would cost to install."

-edit-

For his part, Bogdan said it would be “inappropriate” to comment on Trudeau’s pending decision since he’s “received no official notification from Canada” that it’s backing out of the program.

He said that if Canada, or any of the nine partner countries developing the F-35, skipped out of the effort about $1 million would be added to the cost of each fighter jet. Considering the U.S. wants to purchase 2,440 F-35s over the coming years, that could add billions more to the program’s long-term $1 trillion cost and force the Pentagon to radically reduce its total buy."

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/10/22/Yet-Another-Costly-F-35-Glitch-Won-t-Be-Fixed-Any-Time-Soon

 

Sen. Bernie Sanders, (I) from Vermont, and 2016 Presidential Candidate.

Three words: big Progressive fraud.





The $1 Trillion Question for the F-35:

Is the U.S. Buying an Inferior Plane?
By Martin Matishak

“The F-35 will find itself outmaneuvered, outgunned, out of range, and visible to enemy sensors,” the report states. “Going forward, full investment in the F-35 would be to place a bad trillion-dollar bet on the future of airpower based on flawed assumptions and an underperforming aircraft.”

Rather than continue with the program, with its already sizeable $400 billion price tag, Congress and the Defense Department “should begin the process of considering alternatives to a large-scale commitment to the F-35,” it adds. The lifetime program cost for the plane is expected to surpass $1 trillion.

Bill French, a policy analyst at NSS and one of the study’s authors, said the report is meant to provide a “full picture” for the F-35 program, both in terms of cost and capabilities.

A veritable cottage industry has grown up around the perennially delayed F-35 effort, and while the Marine Corps recently deemed its version of the jet combat ready, questions about the aircraft’s operational effectiveness remain.



http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/08/13/1-Trillion-Question-F-35-US-Buying-Inferior-Plane

 

So he'd end a program that is building the free worlds best 5th gen attack aircraft?

Sold to our allies who will be the tip of the spear at times?

Sounds like he would.

 

Well - that's an opinion. Valid points in the second half. I'm not a soldier/engineer. I'm not here to attack anyone esp. designers.

My schooling is journalism. We like accurate reporting not censored by Elites, Corporatists, and Big Militarism.

No Fake News!

Corporatism could take the form of Hollywood films and actors, Bankers, Industry, and Elitist news anchors, politicians.
..........................................................................................................................

Software Testing Problems Continue to
Plague F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Program

more reports 15 billion on software glitches ...
"Autonomic Logistics Information System"


https://breakingdefense.com/tag/autonomic-logistics-information-system/



...
The F-35 Won't Be Able To Fire A Shot Until 2019 Due To The Latest Technical Problem

David Millward,The Telegraph


"However according to the Daily Beast, the F35 still does not have the software it needs to operate the four barrelled rotary cannon.

This will be a particular problem when the aircraft is being used to support ground troops because a gun is more precise than dropping a small bomb in the area - with the latter more likely to cause friendly fire casualties.
___________________________________________________
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Earlier this year the F35 jump jet, which was supposed to be the star attraction at the Farnborough Air Show, failed to appear after the entire fleet was grounded following a fire at a Florida air base in June.

Other problems for the fighter, which is being manufactured by Lockheed Martin, have included discovering that the engine can shut down when the fuel gets too hot to work as a coolant."

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-f-35-wont-fire-a-shot-until-2019-2014-12


The Pentagon’s official F-35 bug list is terrifying



https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/222380-the-pentagons-official-f-35-bug-list-is-terrifying

 

pre-program them, no comm, 'set it and forget it'... similar to an icbm... make em cheap, make millions of em, arm and press the 'go' button...

 

Great post.

My senitments exactly!
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.......

Back to the topic:


(no hype)
........

Computer glitch prevents US’ most advanced F-35 fighter jet from firing until 2019 – report


'Equipped with a gun, Air Force’s F-35A version barely carries enough ammunition. Despite being able to shoot 3,300 rounds per minute, it will only be carrying 180 to 220 rounds.


The Pentagon’s fighter jet F-35 may not be fully operational until 2019 due to a newly discovered computer glitch. The $400 billion ultra-sophisticated jet, the most expensive in US history, was expected to enter service in 2015.
F-35 is the fifth generation combat aircraft which is designed in three variations for US Air Force, Navy and Marines to replace out of date aircraft. It was planned to join the Marines in 2015 and Air Force in 2016.

It is planned to replace the Air Force’s A-10 Warthog ground attack plane and Lockheed F-16 multirole fighter, the Navy instead of Boeing F/A-18 Hornet carrier-based fighter, and the Marines instead of Boeing AV-8B Harrier II jump-jet.

However, the most awaited plane’s main weapon will not be able to fire due to a computer glitch. The four-barreled rotary cannon for the Air Force version of the F-35 cannot function until new software is elaborated, despite jet scheduled to join the army this year.


“There will be no gun until [the Joint Strike Fighter’s Block] 3F [software], there is no software to support it now or for the next four-ish years,” an Air Force official affiliated with the F-35 program told the Daily Beast. “Block 3F is slated for release in 2019, but who knows how much that will slip?”

This problem is especially acute as this version of the jet is planned for close air support (CAS) operations. While the F-35 is equipped with other armaments, it might be not enough.

“Lack of forward firing ordnance in a CAS supporting aircraft is a major handicap,” an experienced pilot commented for the Daily Beast. “CAS fights are more fluid than air interdiction, friendlies and targets move... Often times quickly. The ability to mark the target with rockets and attack the same target 10 seconds later is crucial.”

The two other versions of F-35 - for the Navy and Marine Corps - have different configurations with external gun pods, however, they will not have a software for them either, the Daily Beast reported.

F-35 production has been facing delays and cost overruns due to numerous software problems and production defects. The jet which has already cost $400 billion dollars to US taxpayers since the program started in 2006. The costs doubled since the start of construction in 2011 making it the most expensive project in military history.

However, the Pentagon denied the aircraft will be delayed, the International Business Times reports as well as neither Lockheed nor the F-35 Joint Program Office responded to inquiries.

Last December, a problem with fuel was discovered. The engine of the aircraft can shut down when the fuel gets too hot to work as a coolant, although this information was disputed by the Pentagon.


Last summer, the F-35 was supposed to be the star attraction at the Farnborough Air Show in Hampshire, but it did not appear after the entire fleet was grounded after a fire at a Florida airbase in June.

The Pentagon plans to buy 2,433 jets in three variations. Great Britain has also ordered 14 jets. However, the program is getting more and more severe criticism.

“To me, the more disturbing aspect of this delay is that it represents yet another clear indication that the program is in serious trouble,” an Air Force official told the Daily Beast. “F-35 maker “Lockheed Martin is clearly in a situation where they are scrambling to keep their collective noses above the waterline, and they are looking to push non-critical systems to the right in a moment of desperation.”

The F35 is designed and built by American Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company which manufactures the widely spread military aircraft F-16, also known as the Fighting Falcon, successful all-weather multirole plane.'

https://www.rt.com/usa/219255-f35-fighter-jet-glitch/
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Software Glitch Causes F-35 to Incorrectly Detect Targets in Formation

military.com

"The F-35’s Electro-Optical Target System, or EOTS, is an infra-red sensor able to assist pilots with air and ground targeting at increased standoff ranges while also performing laser designation, laser range-finding and other tasks.

In addition, the plane’s Distributed Aperture System, or DAS, is a series of six electro-optical sensors able to give information to the pilot. The DAS includes precision tracking, fire control capabilities and the ability to warn the pilot of an approaching threat or missile.

The F-35s also have an Active Electronically Scanned Array Radar which is able to track a host of electromagnetic signals, including returns from Synthetic Aperture Radar, or SAR. SAR paints a picture of the contours of the ground or surrounding terrain and Ground Moving Target Indicator, or GMTI, locates something on-the-move-on the ground and airborne objects or threats.

Overall, information from all of the JSF sensors is fused through the aircraft’s computer, providing the pilot with clear, integrated view of the battlefield.

-edit-

"
Block 2B you can provide basic close air support and fire an AMRAAM (Advanced Medium Range Air to Air Missile}, JDAM [Joint Direct Attack Munition] or GBU 12 [laser-guided aerial bomb], JSF program officials said.

“We will declare IOC with an older version of the software that does not have all the fixes in it. They (Marine Corps) have ways of mitigating those problems which they feel are sufficient for them to go to war,” Bogdan said.

Bogdan explained how F-35B pilots will be able to use concepts of operation to work around the sensor fusion problems until the software fixes are in place. Some of these tactics could include turning off certain sensors or flying in groups of two instead of four planes, Bogdan explained.

“We want to fix this so it is inherent in the airplane. We have always said that fusion was going to be tough. We are going to work through this,” Bogdan said."

https://www.military.com/defensetech/2015/03/24/software-glitch-causes-f-35-to-incorrectly-
detect-targets-in-formation

........
Pentagon Report: The F-35 Is Still a Mess


The Director of Operational Test and Evaluation (DOT&E) report cites a myriad of problems with the F-35, spanning design issues that negatively impact its aerodynamics in flight to countless software bugs buried in the F-35’s eight million lines of code. (The 24 million lines of code running the F-35’s maintenance and logistics software on the ground? Also buggy.)


http://fortune.com/2016/03/10/the-f-35-is-still-a-mess/

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Thank you for your compliment on my signature block about leaving the Democratic party.

We both know that when the Feds want to buy something, they will buy it no matter what.

I have not followed the F-35 development to the intensity I did follow the F-22 over. The problems you expose are not minor. And cost will skyrocket. I see the value of one jet that can function in various ways. I know the F-22 is more special purpose. And we have over 100 of those. I want to also know more about it's ability to carry bombs and rockets. Will charge to the site to review the F-35. That machine gun fires an extreme amount of ammo per minute. I see the burning up of ammo problem clearly.Thanks for the excellent report.

 

Link title makes it sound like the F-35 is defenseless or not up to task.

In reality its been fighting and killing for over a year in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Israel.

They are light years ahead of the harrier that they replace in the Marine corps.

Close air support is about precision.

And bombs are the preferred means of suppression in the CAS/tactical bombing mission.

So planes that can carry lots of guided bombs quickly while still being able to defend themselves are hot.

The A-10 is slower, more vulnerable, and carries less bombs, none of it is stealth. This is why in recent decades it flies high and steady, to drop bombs, not to shoot its nose cannon.

Im not saying lose the cannon. Im saying the cannon isn't nearly as important as other attributes.



And only one does it in stealth.

As an aside, do journalists spend much time doing this in political forums?

 

We can barely scratch the surface of what the F22 can do because the human body is too fragile to stand up to the G forces that aircraft can maintain.

 

Because they do A LOT MORE than just aircraft and they have been a major player in the DoD for decades. Their contributions have been a huge part of military defense and they will continue to do so for the next 50 years, at least.

 

Even with the suits they have for the pilots?

 

Name any project they have complete in the last 30 years that didn't produce an unworking lemon that needed massive refitting and that stayed within 25% of their budget/per unit cost.