Brunei to Punish Adultery and Gay Sex With Death by Stoning

Yes clearly, if you allow gay marriage, enable gay people to marry, make homophobic agenda, or if you remove anti gay policies, you have a pro gay agenda. It's not bad. I think it's positive to allow gay people to live their life, even if I think that being homophobic is a right as long you don't call to violence toward gay people.
There is three stance about homosexuality on this earth :
A_ Some countries allow gay people to marry, adopt, and fight persecutions against gay, sometimes at the cost of a part of freedom of speech.
B_ Some countries don't allow gay people to marry, adopt but doesn't forbid homosexuality.
C_ Some countries make the fact of having homosexual relationship a crime. As far as I remember there is one christian african country that punish it by prison (maybe Zimbabwe or Benin), a few other muslim countries punish it by prison (there was a case in Tunisia if I remember well, aswell Egypt) and some country that punish homosexuality by death. If I'm not wrong they're all muslims (Saudi Arabia, Mauritania, Iran and now Brunei).

If you're in A you have a pro gay agenda, and I don't see it as an insult even if I have a deep scorn for people which try to impose homosexuality in books, movie.

 

Classical rethoric when a muslim country do something, "but christian were", based on the false concept that a muslim is a retarded christian.

 

Islam is an Abrahamic religion and so goes hand in hand with Christianity.

https://www.metroweekly.com/2018/06...ld-be-executed-because-the-bible-commands-it/

Matt Powell, 22, made the comments during an interview with YouTube personality Skylar Fiction, saying he believes gays should be killed in accordance with writings in the Bible. “As far as homosexuality goes, you know, I believe the Bible puts the death penalty on it,” he said. “I believe it’s disgusting.”

 

It's quite baffling, but basically it's what happens when someone who likes to virtue signal progressive ideas becomes triggered.

 

While the republicans are far more like your moderate Muslim. And the problem with discussions like these, is that far right gimps use examples like this, as if there is no moderate Muslim, but only Muslims who kill. Far right gimps, who spread their fake news hate message,.. probably with a Christian/Jewish background.

 

I never pretended that Islam and Christianity didn't shared some roots, but even if they have the same roots, they're different religions. There is no pope equivalent for muslims, there is no hadith equivalent for christian and so on. Christian and muslims doesn't consider their texts the same way.
Yes clearly, christianity is homophobic. However, christian doesn't have all the same relationship with the ancient testament which put the death penalty on homosexuality, because it's the same ancient testament that forbid christian to eat pork and says them to be circumcised.
Furthermore, if there is a few taboo christianity, there is clearly nothing alike the hallal/haram system.

Furthermore, my point is not to says that christian are all lover of homosexuality, it's about to stop to consider muslims as christian stuck in the past.

People are always more "moderate" when they're in position of weakness and minority. The orthodoxy of islam remain the same : homosexuality is haram and penalty in a sha'riah system is death penalty.

 

Well at least this is not more of the same disingenuous crap so many have been putting out there in this thread. You mostly care , not about the gays or adulterers you ironically profess progressive don't care about , in the use of this article about the Brunei govt and its new law. Instead, you care about exploiting their proposed stonings for your anti- Islamic American agenda more than solving the problem in Brunei. I just wish you had not used those people who are the targets of this law as useful tools and really wanted to explore how to change Brunei's inhumane law.

I am a liberal gay man. I want to stop the stonings from happening and stop the govt from allowing and promoting them first. I also want to undermine any radical foundational support whether it is religiously based, or based on culture or custom, or secularism. In my view, nothing could be less successful in changing this policy than attacking the foundation of Islam when 2/3 of its population claim to be adherents of the faith. We need instead to find moderate Islamic or non Islamic voices, listen to them and help them promote their vision of how justice, mercy, humanity and decency can compliment the foundations of the faith of the majority of Brunei or alternately promote less govt dependency on radical theocratic leadership in Brunei.

Lets do something about this law and its Govt sponsorship of torture and death . There are real lives at stake and our govt needs to be on the right side of this.

 

You can say all that but the Jews do believe in the old testament. And Christians don't like to be anti-Semitic.

I didn't know that Turkey had a Muslim minority.

 

That's correct, I'm using this incident to highlight the insidious way that Islam can manifest itself, even in this modern era. Fair enough that people may consider that to be in poor taste, though I'm honestly not doing so with calloused intent, my mind is truely blown that people could be stoned to death for having sex with same sex partners, or commiting adultry, and additionally risk having their hands and feet severed for theft.

It's also true that I'm extremely critical of progressives due to their tendency to "support" Islam vis a vis sort of co-opting Muslims within their fold. I don't think it's fair to say that I'm saying progressives don't care though, I'm not saying that.

That's all fine and well, and I'm sure that as we speak, someone with an ability to actually do something about Brunei is working on diplomatic efforts with the intent of influencing a reversal. I wish them luck.

As for the West though, I have no faith in the idea that 'moderate Muslims' will be able to control the extremists amongst themselves. You can definitely find examples of Muslims reporting extremists to authorities, and examples of Muslims speaking out against violence in the name of Islam, but I fear it'll never be enough.

I don't believe a soft and tolerant approach will solve the problems of Islamic extremism and lack of assimilation. Even with my unfavorable view of the Chinese government, I believe they're wise in cutting straight to the chase in dealing with Islam.

 

So you want to kill Muslims for being Muslim, regardless of age, sex, social standing ... so tell me how that makes you better than the Muslims stoning gay people?

 

You assume this based upon what?

 

I appreciate your candor but would recommend that you title your threads to accurately reflect the flow of the discussion you hope to lead. If you don't want to talk about Brunei or how to change its inhumane laws of stoning, those subjects are probably not best suited for your thread title. Its basically a bait and switch move. You sure have no business talking about callousness in progressives to an expression of radical homophobia when you don't even particularly want to discuss it yourself.

 

I don't like judaism, it's a ****ed up religion, and I'm not christian. I don't know a lot about judaism, it's a very strange religion, furthermore there is people which are mostly ethnic jews and don't care that much about religion, and there is the ultra orthodox jews, from what I heard of them, they're not nicer than the ultra salafist madmen.

Turkey is a specific case in the islamic world because of the wide influence of Ataturk. I never studied that much about Ataturk but it's an interesting man and probably one of the greatest leader which ever existed. Ataturk replaced arabic alphabet, to the arabic one prefered by islamic religious, put in place a secular republic instead of the caliphate. I already heard he was an admirer of french revolution.
That doesn't make Ataturk an atheist, but clearly an opponent to the concept of Shariah, and clearly not an orthodox muslim.
I already discussed with some turkish people, their country seems to be divided between secular and islamic conservative.

There is a whole wikipedia article on Ataturk view on religion :
Just two quotes of Ataturk on that :
"Religion is an important institution. A nation without religion cannot survive. Yet it is also very important to note that religion is a link between Allah and the individual believer. The brokerage of the pious cannot be permitted. Those who use religion for their own benefit are detestable. We are against such a situation and will not allow it. Those who use religion in such a manner have fooled our people; it is against just such people that we have fought and will continue to fight. Know that whatever conforms to reason, logic, and the advantages and needs of our people conforms equally to Islam. If our religion did not conform to reason and logic, it would not be the perfect religion, the final religion"
"It is known by the world that, in our state administration, our main program is the Republican People's Party program. The principles it covers are the main lines that illuminate us in management and politics. But these principles should never be held equal to the dogmas of books that are assumed to have descended from the sky. We have received our inspirations directly from life, not from sky or unseen."

 

You said that you don't believe a "tolerant" approach will solve the problem ... what other solution are you implying other than death? Mass incarceration of 1.4 billion people?

 

The thread title is copy/paste from the artcle source, gotten in trouble for doing otherwise in the past.

 

Haha, no. I'm talking about shutting down immigration from Muslim majority nations, save for certain circumstances, and deporting every possible 'refugee', in all Western nations.

 

That is not a "pro gay agenda"; that is an agenda to treat everyone equally.

 

To treat everyone equally means those who are denied certain goods and services cannot sue for discrimination on the basis of their believing they were discriminated again. Such would mean no more lawsuits against bakers who refuse to custom make wedding cakes that endorse homosexual marriage.

 

You know - it's time to stop pretending this is a "thing". There have literally been thousands of gay weddings, and in all that time, maybe a handful of lawsuits. Hell, vendors are FAR more likely to have been sued by heterosexual couples. There will always be a few people looking for ways to scam the system - but this is such a small percentage that it isn't even a statistical blip on the charts.

So let's stop pretending - in the grand scheme of things, it's just a fart in a hurricane.

 

Please don;t highjack the thread. This has nothing to do with Christian or any other religion. Read the thread title and then comment.

 

Brunei's revised penal code came into force on 22 April 2014, stipulating the death penalty for numerous offenses
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunei#Human_rights
5 yrs old?
They are getting as bad a tRUMPs white nationalists.

 

Not virtue signaling. No more so than broad brushing the entirety of Islam over the action of an extremist area. It's like broad brushing Christians for the actions of abortion clinic bombers.

 

It has to be repeated occasionally but, as islamic leaders have said so often, "There is no such thing as 'moderate' Islam".

You can hope for it, that they will soon be moderate and come to their senses, but that's not going to happen. The only hope is that the better educated among them just leave islam, despite the dangers of doing so. Islam should never be encouraged or underestimated in any western democracy.

 

Incredible! Killing people must be the only other option. That's quite an imagination you got going for ya'.

 

That's what the Chinese government is doing, and he said that was his model. Can't help it if the guy's got weird role models.