These four countries have nearly eliminated gun deaths- here's what the US can learn

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Galileo, Apr 14, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,860
    Likes Received:
    481
    Trophy Points:
    83
    "Australia paid citizens to sell their guns to the government.... Over the next few years, gun-death totals were cut nearly in half. Firearm suicides dropped to 0.8 per 100,000 people in 2006 from 2.2 in 1995, while firearm homicides dropped to 0.15 per 100,000 people in 2006 from 0.37 in 1995.....

    "Japan, which has strict laws for obtaining firearms, seldom has more than 10 shooting deaths a year in a population of 127 million people.

    "If Japanese people want to own a gun, they must attend an all-day class, pass a written test, and achieve at least 95% accuracy during a shooting-range test.

    "Then they have to pass a mental-health evaluation at a hospital, as well as a background check, in which the government digs into any criminal records or ties and interviews friends and family members.

    "Finally, they can buy only shotguns and air rifles — no handguns — and must retake the class and the initial exam every three years....

    "Compared with the US, Norway has about one-third of the number of guns per 100 civilians — and about one-tenth of the rate of gun deaths per 100,000 people.

    "Sociologists who study the Nordic model have found that social cohesion between citizens and the government goes a long way toward ensuring a (mostly) peaceful society.

    "For example, an analysis in 2015 found that the number of fatal shootings by police in Norway in the past nine years was less than the number of fatal shootings by US police officers in one day.....

    "The UK's approach that combines elements of those of the other three countries....

    "A $200 million buyback program led to the government's purchase of 162,000 guns and 700 tons of ammunition from citizens.

    "GunPolicy.org estimates that in 2010 there were 3.78 guns per 100 people in the UK, while the US, meanwhile, is estimated to have 101 guns per 100 people.

    "The result has been roughly 50 to 60 gun deaths a year in England and Wales, which have a population of 56 million. Compare that to the US, a country about six times as large that has more than 160 times as many gun-related homicides."
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ay-florida-shooting-latest-news-a8216301.html

    What other countries can the US learn from?
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  2. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So what you are saying is we need to make our country more homogeneous like Nordic countries instead of a melting pot.
     
  3. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    10,291
    Likes Received:
    13,163
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Not to mention Japan, which is only slightly less xenophobic than North Korea.

    Screen Shot 2019-04-14 at 8.09.19 AM.png

    There's a lesson the US needs to learn alrighty.
     
  4. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The only lesson to be learned from these cited nations, is that diverse cultures and populations simply do not work. It has nothing to do with firearm-related restrictions, and absolutely everything to do with largely homogeneous cultures devoid of almost all minorities. There is simply no room for both diversity and safety. That is the only lesson that can be taken away from this.
     
    Turtledude likes this.
  5. Right is the way

    Right is the way Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    3,214
    Likes Received:
    1,584
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I wonder what he has against people of other races?
     
  6. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    10,291
    Likes Received:
    13,163
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Probably doesn't like the fact that they can't be trusted with guns.
     
    vman12 likes this.
  7. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    9,049
    Likes Received:
    4,354
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And all of those countries have very little in common with the U.S., you are comparing apples to rocks.
     
    Turtledude and An Taibhse like this.
  8. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,860
    Likes Received:
    481
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I don't think the UK and Australia are devoid of almost all minorities. Those countries have plenty of immigrants.
     
  9. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,860
    Likes Received:
    481
    Trophy Points:
    83
    How so? Why are Americans much more likely to misuse guns? Be specific.
     
  10. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    9,049
    Likes Received:
    4,354
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You just answered your own question, we have a society that glorifies violence and that is the problem, not guns.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
    Turtledude and SiNNiK like this.
  11. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,860
    Likes Received:
    481
    Trophy Points:
    83
    So why should people in such a society be trusted with guns? A love of violence plus easy access to firearms seems like a far from desirable combination.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  12. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    9,049
    Likes Received:
    4,354
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Because the majority of those people would not be deterred by any form of gun control, such controls would only place those of us, who are law abiding at increased risk, the UK has totally banned guns and is heading for a record of 40,000 stabbings in 2019.

    Given the size of their population compared to ours, they have a much larger violence problem than we will ever get close to having, to yet the banning of guns there did nothing other than make the law abiding more victimized than ever have been in the past.

    Gun control has never worked and never will, as it only address's the symptom and does nothing about solving the disease.

    But don't tell that to the those who worship the altar of gun control.
     
    Wildjoker5 likes this.
  13. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    38,026
    Likes Received:
    16,042
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    JAPAN
    In the early morning of Tuesday July 26, a lone attacker Satoshi Uematsu with a backpack full of knives stabbed 19 people to death and injured at least 25 more...

    Tomohiro Kato killed seven and injured ten in the Tokyo entertainment district of Akihabara after driving into a crowd with a truck and then attacking bystanders with a knife....
    [​IMG]
    All samurai swords with cosmetic features like a black handle are labeled as assault swords.

    Australia

    Yesterday:
    Melbourne nightclub shooting leaves one dead, three injured
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-47924270


    USA

    Florida man killed by his pet bird aka assault bird.
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/florida-man-killed-by-his-cassowary-the-worlds-most-dangerous-bird
     
  14. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,312
    Likes Received:
    6,672
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    None. Nor these examples either. Countries and their histories and cultures are just too different to make policies cross applicable.
     
    modernpaladin and Well Bonded like this.
  15. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    9,049
    Likes Received:
    4,354
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Reality and APACHERAT like this.
  16. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The nation of Japan, however, is most certainly devoid of almost anyone who is a member of a minority race, thus making them an almost-perfectly homogeneous race. Could such ever be tolerated in the united states? Would such ever be tolerated in the united states? Racial purity to the point of excluding everyone else?
     
  17. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The majority of individuals in the united states are not the ones committing violence. The majority of legal firearm owners are not the ones committing violence. The greatest share of violence is being committed by those who already cannot legally possess firearms under any circumstances. So long as these individuals remain free in society where they can do the most harm, this will not change.
     
  18. 10A

    10A Chief Deplorable Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    Messages:
    5,698
    Likes Received:
    1,006
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Australia in it was not a buyback program but rather a confiscation program where people with unregistered guns were threatened with prosecution. That is not voluntary, but rather a sign that you have lost personal freedom.

    What other countries can the US learn from? Mao’s China and Stalin’s Russia are pretty good examples of States that disarmed its’ citizens and then killed them. Hitler? He only took the guns from the Jews. The USA is a different place from Europe, with a wide open southern border with the most murderous countries in the world. You may be content to be a lamb led to slaughter, but we actually have guts in this country.
     
    Well Bonded likes this.
  19. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,860
    Likes Received:
    481
    Trophy Points:
    83
    So if the UK has a culture of violence too why is their gun crime rate so low compared to the US? Could it be that UK gun laws are working for the most part?

    A high knife violence rate is better than a high gun violence rate. Gun attacks are much more likely to result in the death of the victim:

    " 'People kill with knifes, too. Do you want to ban knifes?' From Dr. Roth's study: The overall fatality rate in gun robberies is an estimated 4 per 1,000--about 3 times the rate for knife robberies, 10 times the rate for robberies with other weapons, and 20 times the rate for robberies by unarmed offenders. (Cook, Philip J., 'Robbery Violence,' Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, 78-2, (1987):357-376.) For assaults, a crime which includes threats, the most widely cited estimate of the fatality rate is derived from a 1968 analysis of assaults and homicides committed in Chicago. The study, prepared for the National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence, reported that gun attacks kill 12.2 percent of their intended victims. This is about 5 times as often as in attacks with knives, the second most deadly weapon used in violent crimes.(Newton, G.D., and F.E. Zimring, Firearms and Violence in American Life: A Staff Report Submitted to the National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence, Washington, D.C.: National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence, 1969.) With one exception, more recent studies have generally concluded that death was at least twice as likely in gun assaults as in knife assaults. (The exception is Kleck and McElrath, 'The Effects of Weaponry on Human Violence.')"
    http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~zj5j-gttl/guns.htm
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  20. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,860
    Likes Received:
    481
    Trophy Points:
    83
    So why are gun laws in other first world countries preventing criminals from obtaining guns and using them in crimes? Why shouldn't such laws work in the US too?
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  21. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    For the simple reason that such has always been the case in the history of the united kingdom, even when firearms were as freely available as they are presently in the united states. Nothing of significance was changed by the implementation of their present firearm-related restrictions.
     
    6Gunner likes this.
  22. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They are not. The terrorist attacks in the nation of France are evidence of that. Unless it is being suggested by yourself that devices like grenades and fully-automatic firearms are not yet prohibited in the nation of France.

    First the foremost, the great majority of them would never pass constitutional muster under any level of scrutiny, therefore they are not worth even discussing as if they had merit, legal or otherwise.

    Secondly, the united states has far more firearms than any other nation in the world, and the vast majority of them are unregistered, making it physically impossible to find them for the purpose of removal. And since they cannot be found, those who possess them cannot be prosecuted for their noncompliance.

    Third, the united states possesses an outlaw culture, where laws that are not liked are simply ignored by not only the public, but also the criminal element, and those tasked with enforcing the law. The prohibition on substances such as marijuana is at the federal level, it provides absolutely no exceptions, yet numerous states are disregarding this prohibition and committing felony offenses by authorizing the legal use of marijuana within their borders.
     
    6Gunner likes this.
  23. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    9,049
    Likes Received:
    4,354
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No they are totally failing to address the actual problem, once again and I will type this slowly, addressing the symptom (which the UK did), has not solved the problem, the disease of violence and until that is done banning tools, (which the UK is now planning on banning knives), will never solve the root cause of the problem.

    Are you intelligent enough to understand that?
     
  24. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,860
    Likes Received:
    481
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Completely eradicating violence from society is not a realistic goal. Minimizing the harm that violent people do is. Violent people can do more harm with guns so controlling access to guns is one way to minimize the harm they do.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
    Bowerbird likes this.
  25. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,860
    Likes Received:
    481
    Trophy Points:
    83
    But they didn't have the kind of gun culture that the US does. So that could be the reason for their historically very low gun crime rates. Handgun ownership rates were very low in the UK (less than 1%) before their handgun ban. Handguns are the type of firearm most likely to be criminally misused. There definitely does seem to be an association between gun violence and gun ownership rates.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
    Bowerbird likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page