Mueller report: Barr lied! There was was obstruction... and... surprise surprise...

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Apr 18, 2019.

  1. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    ... there was collusion. Not criminal collusion. But definite contact.

    As explained in Section IV above, the Office's investigation uncovered evidence of numerous links (i.e., contacts) between Trump Campaign officials and individuals having or claiming to have ties to the Russian government. The Office evaluated the contacts under several sets of federal laws, including conspiracy laws and statutes governing foreign agents who operate in the United States. After considering the available evidence, the Office did not pursue charges under these statutes against any of the individuals discussed in Section IV above-with the exception of FARA charges against Paul Manafort and Richard Gates based on their activities on behalf of Ukraine.​


    Of course, that's not the relevant part. There are other relevant parts. Even with a heavily reported report, several things are clear. Mueller named at least 10 instances of obstruction. And we now know why he didn't prosecute. Contrary to Barr's statement (i.e., Barr lied!!!) it was, in fact, because of the DOJ directive not to indict a sitting President.

    The Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) has issued an opinion finding that "t he indictment or criminal prosecution of a sitting President would impermissibly undermine the capacity of the executive branch to perform its constitutionally assigned functions" in violation of "the constitutional separation of powers." 1 Given the role of the Special Counsel as an attorney in the Department of Justice and the framework of the Special Counsel regulations , see 28 U.S.C. § 515; 28 C.F.R. § 600.7(a), this Office accepted OLC's legal conclusion for the purpose of exercising prosecutorial jurisdiction.
     
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  2. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    Johnny, it's over.
     
  3. PrincipleInvestment

    PrincipleInvestment Well-Known Member

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    tenor_1.gif Good thing Mueller's grand jury is still seated. Barr can expect Muellers midight posse of US Marshalls to arrive with the indictment before dawn. :roll:
     
  4. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sure.

    He was trying to obstruct an investigation into a crime he never committed.
     
  5. navigator2

    navigator2 Banned

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    Good lord. We're not going to see any collusion with Ukraine until the Hillary coverup surfaces after the IG Report and congressional criminal referrals come out.:rolleyes:
     
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  6. PrincipleInvestment

    PrincipleInvestment Well-Known Member

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    Ha! Gotta genius on another thread, says Trump calling the investigators trying to frame him liars obstructed the liars phony investigation ... :roll: Today's been like Christmas & Easter all rolled into one. ::):
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
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  7. navigator2

    navigator2 Banned

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    It hasn't been this fun since Election night 2016. :grin:
     
  8. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm happy to see that you admit he obstructed. Whether he committed a crime, or an impeachable act, or an embarrassing act he didn't want out in public... is different matter. But now it's clear even to you that he committed obstruction
     
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  9. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Who is Hillary?
     
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  10. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    The DOJ has a rule forbidding the indictment of a sitting President.

    Mueller presented his evidence in prosecutorial way, meaning was there enough evidence to convict beyond a reasonable doubt. Mueller did not even try. He left it up to Congress.

    Concerning Trump's indictment, when he does says "No collusion and no obstruction," that was determined two years ago.


    The report does not find that Trump or his campaign aides had committed any crimes in their contacts with Russians, but it lays bare how Trump was elected with the help of a foreign power.

    Trump never does his dirty work. He orders others to do it for him. Picture Trump meeting with four Russian operatives in Trump Tower. No, he sent his son, son-in-law, and campaign manager.

    Although, he may not be personally involved, Trump is responsible for what his campaign did. For example, no doubt he knew that key members of his campaign (and family) were meeting four Russian operatives in his home.

    Efforts by Trump to obstruct justice failed because others refused to "carry out orders."

    Mueller wrote that no person — not even the President of the United States — is above the law, and that the US Constitution doesn’t “categorically and permanently immunize a President for obstructing justice.”

    “The conclusion that Congress may apply obstruction laws to the President’s corrupt exercise of the powers of office accords with our constitutional system of checks and balances and the principle that no person is above the law.”
    The Mueller Report.

    Mueller intended for Congress to decide on the issues of conspiracy and obstruction because his hands were tied by the heretofore mentioned DOJ rule.

    Immediately after learning that a special counsel had been appointed to lead the Russia investigation, the report said, Trump became distraught and slumped in his chair.

    “Oh, my God. This is terrible,” he said. “This is the end of my presidency. I’m ****ed.”
     
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  11. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And those instances of obstruction are laughable.

    Mueller claims that Trump tried to have him fired.....that never happened, in fact Trump clearly stated he never had any intention of doing that.

    Mueller claims that Comey was fired to obstruct the investigation yet cannot prove that.

    The list goes on and on.

    Basically Mueller threw this stuff in to appease democrats from going after him for finding Trump not guilty of anything.

    And there is no way in hell you are going to get Trump on obstructing something that never should have happened in the first place since he was innocent of it.

    Unlike Nixon who obstructed an actual crime there was no crime here.

    Therefore there was no reason for Trump to obstruct it.
     
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  12. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    It doesn't matter what Trump clearly states, since he lies constantly and therefore has no credibility whatsoever.
     
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  13. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So let's get this straight.

    You are claiming that Mueller said no one is above the law, even the president, and that Mueller has enough evidence to convict him but decided not to?
     
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  14. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He has plenty of credibility.

    He said he was innocent and Mueller proved it.

    It's the left who have been saying he's guilty for the last two years that have no credibility.
     
  15. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's pretty sad how Manafort actively colluded with the Russians to help them with Trump's campaign by sharing that data with them and all. If Trump was aware of it, though, he was careful to keep it off of any discoverable record. Not surprising if he did; Cohen has shown us quite clearly how he operates, how secretive and careful he can be.
     
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  16. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Mueller never claimed he was innocent, let alone "proved" it. Why don't you come out of troll mode for once?
     
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  17. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Um yes he did.

    He found no evidence of collusion or anyone in the Trump campaign working with Russia to alter an election.

    Period.
     
  18. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    No man or woman is above the law and that should apply to the president as well as the citizens of our country.He puts his pants on one leg at a time just like the rest f us.
     
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  19. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Manafort did. :/
     
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  20. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So charge him with a crime then.

    Oh wait, you can't because there is no evidence against him.

    lol
     
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  21. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Manafort was found guilty of things totally unrelated to Trump or the campaign.
     
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  22. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think it is undeniable that trump attempted to obstruct
    And would have done so if people around him had not refused
     
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  23. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Manafort also shared polling data with the Russians in order to help them with their operation to help Trump. Fact.
     
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  24. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Polling data is not secret you know.
     
  25. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    But Manafort couldn't be convicted for what he did, because as the Ghoul has argued, it wasn't technically a crime. That's been one of the Ghoul's go-to defenses of Trump and his associates, and apparently not being guilty enough to clear a very, very high bar in order to be convicted of conspiracy to defraud the United States = totally vindicated and innocent and angelic in Trumpland..

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/20/giuliani-manafort-ukraine-criminal-1116064

    Paul Manafort’s decision to give Trump campaign polling data to Ukrainian associates with ties to Russian intelligence was “bad judgment” but not criminal and not as significant as some are making it out to be, the president’s lawyer said Sunday.

    Rudy Giuliani, President Donald Trump’s personal attorney, said in an interview on CNN’s “State of the Union” that the accidental revelation by Manafort’s attorneys that he shared polling data with Konstantin Kilimnik, who worked with Manafort as a political consultant in the Ukraine, was being overblown by people eager to accuse the Trump campaign of colluding with Russia to swing the 2016 election in the president’s favor.

    The former Trump campaign chairman likely shared the data with Kilimnik because “he wanted to get paid,” Giuliani said, adding that Manafort had “a personal relationship with them, independent of the campaign.”​
     
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