Russia to West: D-Day wasnt decisive in ending WW2.

Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by zoom_copter66, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. MrFirst

    MrFirst Banned Past Donor

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    Britain got three times more of lend-lease than USSR. Why Britain didn't defeat Germany?
    As for pushing Soviets somewhere... If you tried, you would got right into the Atlantic ocean. For Red Army then it was a matter of couple of weeks. Of course, Americans and Brits knew that. That's why,even having nuclear bombs, they didn't try to do that.
     
  2. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For lend-lease you have to look at the situation when Russia started to receive it, not what the russian output were at the end of the war.

    When russia started receiving it they were in a dire situation. Lend-lease accounted for 80% of their aviation fuel and most of their essential amunition making chemicals and medecines. Russia had also lost most of her servicable stock of trucks and a big part of her airforce which she wasn't even ready to replace with anything of worth until later in the war.

    Those lend-lease trucks were the key factor in the end. It gave russia what the german army lacked in 41-43, mobility. Most of the german infantry travelled either by rail or by foot and have trouble keeping up with the armored division. It was even worst for their artillery who was horse drawned. Without those trucks russia wouldn't have been able to maneuver as it did.
     
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  3. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Sure they would have....most of your so called "campaigns" corresponded with allied ones.....Kursk, bagration, Stalingrad, etc. Without it, your body count would've stacked higher than the moon.

    Zhukov even said that without the lend lease....SU was ****ed.
     
  4. MrFirst

    MrFirst Banned Past Donor

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    Any proofs for Zhukov's words?
    No proofs. Because he'd never said that.
    So typical for you. A bunch of ignorance and lie.
     
  5. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, you know for a fact he said that? Proofs?




    According to some Russkis ....Chernobyl is a marvelous hoax? It wouldn't surprise me if you felt that way also. "Truth" takes on a whole new meaning when dealing with a Russki.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  6. MrFirst

    MrFirst Banned Past Donor

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    Proofs, proofs. Do you know what means "proof"?
    Your name is ignorance and stupidity?
     
  7. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Russia is historically correct.

    It was the nuking of Japan that brought an end to the Second World War.
     
  8. 10A

    10A Chief Deplorable Past Donor

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    Actually they did. It was near the end of war when the 1 million Soviet soldiers invaded Japanese-occupied Manchuria (China).
     
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  9. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

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    And why would Europe be better if the Nazis won? If Hitler was gone and with the Waffen SS and the army at each others throats. Or are you so naive to believe that Goebels, Himmler, Goering, Borman were going to stand down after the assassination. Now if you said Bavaud or Elser you would have a point.
     
  10. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You’re not German. You’ pretend to be German while you’re definitely something else :)
     
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  11. Sobo

    Sobo Banned

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    Im a god.
     
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  12. Sobo

    Sobo Banned

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    Evrything is better than communism. Its that easy.

    My family had to live 40 years under communist rule and that was worse than anything else.
     
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  13. aenigma

    aenigma Well-Known Member

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    86% of lend lease happend after stalingrad was already won, that was the turning point of the war well before the americans started bombing in mass and well before lend & lease really took off
    it certainly helped but without it the germans where stil ****ed

    intresting note lend & lease russians got about 20% of the total amount with UK getting more then 3x asmuch
     
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  14. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Except for living in California today.
     
  15. aenigma

    aenigma Well-Known Member

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    you dont look very german to me
     
  16. Sobo

    Sobo Banned

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    How you explain, that we germans were ***** but did raise above Russia and UK so fast after the war?

    I mean if you win the war and habe to eat raw potatos while the loser of the war ripps you off just 10 years later....would you feel strange?
     
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  17. Sobo

    Sobo Banned

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    You obviously never saw a german, i look as german as one can

    [​IMG]
     
  18. patentlymn

    patentlymn Active Member

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    There are youtube videos on lend lease. BTW I do not have a dog in this fight.
    One youtube video went into lots of details. As best I recall lend lease provided maybe 15 to 20% of equipment, depending on the type. Militaty historians love to play 'what if.'

    Russians are barely taught about D-Day or the US war in the pacific. I had a Siberian exchange student long ago and made her watch The Longest Day and Midway. I also had her watch Red Dawn because I am a bad person. She informed me that the ending was taken from most Russian war movies, where the heroes return to the monument long after the war. IMO the movie is VERY anti war. There is no glory in it, unlike most US war movies. The main characters run away mid war because they are scared, tired, and hungry.

    The battle for Moscow is interesting. If Hitler had not held up the army for weeks screwing around the German army might have taken Moscow. They planned to blow up some damns/levees and turn Moscow into a lake.

    Stalingard turned when the Soviets realzed that the Japanese were not going to attack so they returned lots of Siberian troops from the east to Stalingrad. Thanks maybe to a great Soviet spy in Japan, who was discovered and hung before the end of the war.

    Some recomendations here:
    The Hard Core History audios are fun and addicting storytelling. Some are free and some are reasonable. The WWI series if free and 20 hours long, all great. The WWII eastern front series costs a coupe dollars to download but well worth it

    Enemy at the Gates was pretty accurate, save the side romance scenes with Rachel Weisz. I read the book by the Russian sniper.

    Secrets of War series is very good, but with some overlap. Not war scenes but more spying and subterfuge. $15 of DVD or free on youtube. Lots of newer released material.

    Sabaton.

     
  19. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When I was a teen, I thought so, too.

    And then I grew up.
     
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  20. patentlymn

    patentlymn Active Member

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    It is thoughtcrime to suggest that Germans or German culture are different or better than others, even though it is. The Germans were never conquered by the Romans, maybe that is why.

    Why would it be better if the US had not won D-Day?

    It would be worse for Russians and Jews if the US had not entered WWII. Still, Europe would still be Europe today. Herbert Hoover, former US president wrote that the US should have stayed out of WWII (Freedom Betrayed, 2011). He said we fought to make the world safe for communism. He also said that by demanding complete surrender we prolonged the war with Germany and Japan.
     
  21. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As i said, you have to look at the start, not the end. Without that help in the begining the russian wouldn't have been able to fly their planes due to lack of aviation fuel. They wouldn't have been able to produce their ammo and shell as they were trying to move their industry farther east and chemical production was impacted. And while the sherman was poor against tiger and panther, it was more than a match for pz3 and 4 until the lather was upgunned. And don't forget the thousands of trucks...
     
  22. Sobo

    Sobo Banned

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    Of course we are better. I love to travel and all countries i visit, i always feel superior. Thats a simple fact and not even meant in a bad way.
     
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  23. patentlymn

    patentlymn Active Member

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    Interesting. Can you explain why?
     
  24. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    No, it would be better for Germany, not Europe if Nazis won. That would means lots of dead people.
     
  25. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You look like a polack.

    Not that there’s anything wrong with looking like a polack :)
     
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