How are we better off post Iran deal?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by robini123, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    We haven't fought a war like that since WWII. Why would we do it now?
     
  2. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The deal was about iran not getting nuclear weapons. If trump can get a better deal, i and most of the country would support that
    So how is that going with north korea? Or russia, or china, or india...... or israel for that matter? I do not want other countries to have nukes either.... but wishing does not make it so

    Btw, if we are not going to defend europe, japan, or s korea.... why wouldn't they think they needed nuked
     
  3. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is no war, which we prefer
     
  4. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If Trump and his band of imbeciles starts another bloody Turd hunt like Cheney/Bush did, he will go down as the worst President in the last 100 years.
     
  5. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    A question best asked of Obama. But none the less your question does not answer mine. As for blame. Only the partisans blame Obama for Trump pulling out of the deal and our coming dangerously close to open conflict or war. Trump thought he could apply pressure and make a better deal. So far all it has done is brought us close to war.
     
  6. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    It is nice to run into a reasonable person on the forums. Thanks for your perspective. With that said do you believe that we are better off today post Iran deal? According to Trump we came close to launching an attack that would have cost Iranian lives. The response by Iran would be as predictable as our own response to American lives lost.
     
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  7. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Kinda like saying it is trumps fault that he is not building the wall
     
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  8. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    I can only imagine how hypocritical it is to the Iranians to be told by a nuclear power that they cannot have what we have and have used in war. I try to see from both sides. Iran is thinking of their interests just as we consider our own.
     
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  9. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am curious.... have you recieved an answer?
     
  10. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    i think few Americans look at this as we would look at things if situations were reversed, we are a proud people, they are a proud people.... i think no one wants to be seen to bullied into accepting a one sided deal. If iran had nukes and threatened us, i doubt we would kiss their feet in response
     
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  11. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Do you understand anything about international law?
     
  12. Sobo

    Sobo Banned

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    Do you think it is smart to break a deal which your allies Germany, France and UK also signed? To insult that allies and place them against yourself?

    With smart negotiations you could have achieved more.

    Now you have open hostilities with Iran and your allies Germany, France and UK against you and siding with China and Russia over this.

    In the end one must ask, why make deals woth USA, they break them.
     
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  13. Raffishragabash

    Raffishragabash Banned

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    The aggression we see from Iran, has nothing to do with Trump pulling out of the deal.

    What we see these days in Iran's aggression, the spark, is something Russia China India and Brazil have been igniting since 2006-'07. We can't blame this on Trump, since it was long before his time.

    https://www.silkroadbriefing.com/ne...essible-via-smartphone-avoid-us-dollar-trade/

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dip...-nations-pledge-unity-face-us-china-trade-war

    https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/indepth/2018/12/19/Iran-turns-to-BRICS-nations-as-sanctions-build
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  14. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The US does have a superb military. What the US didn't have and doesn't still have is superb politicians who know how to effectively use the US military. The US pushed the North Koreans back north. The US military one every single major battle in Vietnam. The Iraq war would have been a success if politicians hadn't decided to disband the Iraqi military creating an insurgency and Afghanistan is a NATO operation. Al Qaeda camps were destroyed and the Taliban government who allowed Al Qaeda to train in their country was ousted.
     
  15. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Keeping Iran from having a nuclear military is innthe best interest of the whole world.
    Would be nice if only we and the Russians had them.
     
  16. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Both Germany and France accused Iran of not complying with the UN resolution that approved the nuclear deal. What did the UN do about this? Nothing. This is the reason Trump decided to pull the US out of the deal. Maybe you should be blaming the UN for the failure of the nuclear deal?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_2231

    On March 29, 2016, the United States, the UK, France, and Germany wrote a joint letter to Secretary-General of the United Nations Ban Ki-moon accusing Iran of "defying" Security Council Resolution 2231 through missile tests conducted since the deal. The letter said the missiles were "inherently capable of delivering nuclear weapons". However, it stopped short of saying the tests were illegal. Resolution 2231 calls for Iran to refrain from activity related to nuclear-capable missiles ("Iran is called upon not to undertake any activity related to ballistic missiles designed to be capable of delivering nuclear weapons, including launches using such ballistic missile technology"[3]), but according to diplomats the language is not legally binding and cannot be enforced with punitive measures.[4]
     
  17. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    I think it's a toss up i don't think we are better off. America has vastly superior weapons and men. My biggest concern militarily is do we have good military leaders
    Do we have a Schwatrskoff or do we have a Westmoreland? Thoes are things i don't know.
    If shooting starts i xan tell you this, the only thing I care about is our men and women in uniform. We should fight as unfairly as we possibly can.
     
  18. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    The Iran deal was about delaying them getting nukes, which is essentially nothing.

    We don't need a deal we just need to tell them that cruise missiles and FA 18s will not allow them to attain nuclear weapons.

    No deal necessary, if they want a deal they can show some sincerity by stopping their terrorist activities and give Israel a handshake. They do that the worlds their oyster.. hell maybe we could even get their f-14s flying for them again.
     
  19. Sobo

    Sobo Banned

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    Has nothing to do with the deal. Since Germany, UK and France are still holding to it.

    USA did not consultate its allies, did not try to find common ground. You tried to bully us into your demands.
     
  20. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I, too, am an independent who has no use for either major political party.
    I also spent 10 - 11 months wandering around the Islamic Mid East and have been following Mid East events ever since Israel's deliberate attack on our USS Liberty on June 8, 1967.

    Over that time period, I have learned the obscene degree to which Israel's lobbies control US Mid East policy so that answering your questions is as easy as it is disturbing.

    1) Why was it necessary to pull out?
    Answer: It wasn't necessary to pull out and was even beneficial to stay in because the Nuclear Deal not only worked as it was intended but also represented a thawing in US - Iranian relations.
    This, of course, was anathema to Israel's numerous war mongering right wing lobbies such as AIPAC, JINSA, ZOA etc whose machinations have driven America to abrogate an excellent agreement and placed America on war footing with Iran.

    2) How has the pull out served America’s National interests and security?
    Answer: Pulling out of the Nuclear deal has only been detrimental to US regional interests, illustrated the degree to which Israeli lobbies control US policy making and alienated America's European allies.

    There is only one country's government in the world that wants the US to destroy Iran & regrettably that country's lobbies virtually make US policy.


    "Israel is pushing the US into war against Iran"
    http://between-the-lines-ludwig-wat...03/israel-is-pushing-us-into-war-against.html

    "Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu Leads US President Trump to War with Iran"
    https://www.unz.com/jpetras/israeli...hu-leads-us-president-trump-to-war-with-iran/

    "America Cannot Go to War for Israel"
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ahmed-moor/america-cannot-go-to-war-_b_682467.html

    "Lobbyist Says Israel Should Create A 'False Flag' To Start A War With Iran"
    https://www.businessinsider.com/top...-with-iran-sink-sub-illicit-false-flag-2012-9

    "Netanyahu Is Meeting Trump To Push For War With Iran"
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/netanyahu-trump-war-with-iran_us_59bfc6e6e4b086432b089840

    "Neocon Pundit: The Israel Lobby Wants War With Iran"
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/neocon-pundit-the-israel-lobby-wants-war-with-iran

    "Netanyahu & the Lobby Cowboy Up For War With Iran"
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mj-rosenberg/netanyahu-the-lobby-cowbo_b_3611038.html
     
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  21. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Islamic fanatics, which the Supreme Leader of Iran is, play the long game and the West sees Iran through a Western filter which is a mistake. Trump at least sees through the charade and is doing what needed to be done in the first place, sanctions. Iran's economy is Iran's problem and they are suffering under sanctions. This is called pressure. The Iran deal allowed them to continue to produce nuclear fuel and it would sunset so all Iran had to do was just wait it out while literally giving up nothing.
     
  22. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ah, the ever present "but Obama" argument.
     
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  23. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think it made a bit of difference. This is one of those issues that comes down via party lines. When Obama first signed the deal, for the most part Democrats were all in favor, Republicans against with independents split. Around a third for, a third against and the rest having no opinion.

    Today on the question of Trump's handling of Iran, 79% of Democrats disapprove, 83% of Republicans approve while 37% of independents approve, 40% disapprove with 24% having no opinion. Question 3.

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/f0cbavpadc/econTabReport.pdf

    So it seems to me it's one party's affiliation that determines your answer to your question. Me, I wasn't bothered with Obama signed it and I wasn't bothered when Trump pulled out of it. What bothered me was Obama never bothered to get senate ratification of the deal which basically made the deal between Obama and Iran, not the United States and Iran. It wasn't a treaty, just a personal deal between the former president and Iran. Much like Nixon's deal with Theiu of South Vietnam that the U.S. would come to South Vietnam's aid if North Vietnam made gross violations of the Paris Peace Pact. Nixon didn't get that deal ratified either and in the end it meant nothing to congress or the new president.

    There's the constitutional way with these things which requires senate approval and there is the bypassing of congress's way which leaves these deals up to the whims of any future president.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  24. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Doesn’t Germany have a law that requires all treaties to be approved by your parliament?
     
  25. Sobo

    Sobo Banned

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    Actually no, the chancellor can decide in some cases.
     

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