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Oregon Senate Cancels Saturday Session Amid Reports of Militia Groups Protesting at Capitol

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Egoboy, Jun 21, 2019.

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  1. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    The thing that is crazy about this whole affair, is the example from Colorado. They did this back in 80's. It really doesn't effect farmers at all. It mostly effects smokestack industries. In Colorado it was a boon for some farmers. They were able to sell those old rusted out cars they had out in their fields. Large polluters bought up old cars and sent them to the scrap yard, in exchange for carbon credits as if those cars had actually worked.
     
    ImNotOliver, Jun 23, 2019
    #76
  2. Lee S

    Lee S Moderator Staff Member Past Donor

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    There are no smokestack industries in Oregon anymore. They all left the state a long time ago. However, all tractors have smokestacks, we just call them exhaust pipes. The Oregon Democrats stated that the cost of carbon credits for a gallon of gas for many agriculture companies (agriculture uses a ton of fuel) in 2030 will be more than $5.00 a gallon, and that is on top of the normal price of fuel. This will not be a boon to anyone who does not live in the Portland, Salem, or Eugene metropolitan areas, and those that live in those areas are going to see food prices skyrocket and locally sourced foods will be scarce.

    And for what? What gain is there for anyone (other than PERS recipients) in the state? Will it reduce pollution one iota? Of course not.
     
    Lee S, Jun 23, 2019
    #77
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  3. Space_Time

    Space_Time Well-Known Member

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    Here's more:

     
    Space_Time, Jun 23, 2019
    #78
  4. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Egoboy, Jun 23, 2019
    #79
  5. 9royhobbs

    9royhobbs Well-Known Member

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    People say stupid thing all the time, I can accept that because I know stupid when I hear it. Senators are no different but what this guy said was beyond stupid. It was reckless and inflammatory.
     
    9royhobbs, Jun 23, 2019
    #80
  6. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about the arms. This guy claimed the Dems started doing it with every bill for the sole purpose of preventing the public from being able to overturn the bills using that process. They started doing it after the public was able to overturn the previous claim change bill.
     
    Tim15856, Jun 24, 2019
    #81
  7. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The "whataboutism" stems from so many guilty folks on the left. It's just too fertile ground not to use it as a cudgel. It was the Democrats that ran off to other states to avoid a crucial vote in Wisconsin. They were hero's to the left then. Now, when the same tactic is used against them it's pure heresy.
     
    Professor Peabody, Jun 24, 2019
    #82
  8. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It will never happen.
     
    Professor Peabody, Jun 24, 2019
    #83
  9. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Say what you will, it's still a distraction from the case at hand.
     
    Aleksander Ulyanov, Jun 24, 2019
    #84
  10. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's call Juxtaposition.
     
    Professor Peabody, Jun 24, 2019
    #85
  11. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    With all available information indicating the case at hand needed such tactics to avoid the passage of a bill the people of the state of Oregon simply did not want, that would have done far more harm than good to the community through excessive fines and fees.
     
    Xenamnes, Jun 24, 2019
    #86
  12. Lee S

    Lee S Moderator Staff Member Past Donor

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    Maybe if the Republican senators declared themselves undocumented.........
     
    Lee S, Jun 24, 2019
    #87
  13. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    [
    The representatives of a clear majority of Oregon's voters would disagree with you. Why are conservatives always using Parliamentary chicanery to thwart the will of the people?
     
    Aleksander Ulyanov, Jun 24, 2019
    #88
  14. Lee S

    Lee S Moderator Staff Member Past Donor

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    I believe a more accurate assessment would be that the representatives of the Portland, Salem, and Eugene metropolitan areas would disagree. But that is not who those Oregon senators are representing. They are representing Burns, Klamath Falls, Roseburg, Harney County, and Enterprise, and those voters are in full support of the Senators who walked. These senators were elected to protect and serve the people of their districts, and that is exactly what they are doing.

    And politicians resorting to chicanery? I am shocked, I tell you! Absolutely shocked.

     
    Lee S, Jun 24, 2019
    #89
    Thought Criminal, Nunya D. and Josephwalker like this.
  15. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    I agree but this actions by one man does not mean the entire group of senators should be punished. This one particular senator wouldn't get my vote again though.
     
    Josephwalker, Jun 24, 2019
    #90
  16. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Serving their districts by refusing to show up to serve their districts?? Oh-Kay......

    Obviously, there's a problem with the quorum rules in this (or any other) state that has some odd pct required.

    I believe a mere majority of any body should be considered enough for a quorum... In this case 15/29....
     
    Egoboy, Jun 24, 2019
    #91
  17. Lee S

    Lee S Moderator Staff Member Past Donor

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    Well, that is exactly the case in this instance. I feel that you really do not understand the problem and if you did, I would think that you would change your mind on this issue. If you could indulge me in a little exercise, I would like you to look up Burns, Oregon on Google Earth. Notice that the roads going to Burns are mountainous. If you have the skills, use the measurement tool and see how far Burns is from any major freeway. Zoom into Burns and see how large each ranch is in the Burns area. After you do this, then please ask yourself these questions:

    Is virtually everything bought in Burns dependent upon trucking?
    Is everything produced in Burns dependent upon trucking to get to market?
    Are there any electric trucks on the market which are capable of reaching Burns from over the mountains?
    Are there any electric trucks in a prototype stage that have the range to reach Burns?
    With the size of the ranches in Burns, are trucks or other gasoline or diesel powered transportation required for farming and animal husbandry?
    Since absolutely everything bought and sold in Burns Oregon is required to be trucked and all business in Burns requiring fuel, what will a $5.60 carbon tax do to the community of Burns, Oregon?
    If you were faced with the moral dilemna between your obligation of staying in the legislature or to leave and prevent the destruction and ruin of your community and the way of life of the people in your community, which option would you choose? (To make things easier, suppose you lived in a racist state and the state proposed legislation which would segregate your mixed race community with strict apartheid, thus wrecking your community and your way of life. Would you be so eager to 'represent' your people by showing up to the statehouse so your opponents could destroy your way of life?)
     
    Lee S, Jun 24, 2019
    #92
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  18. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    A handful of elitist cities should not be allowed to determine what is best for the entire state.
     
    Xenamnes, Jun 24, 2019
    #93
  19. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well then, you better get on that gerrymandering next time you have the state house......

    But why not?? The cities are where the people are.... the rest of the state is where the farm animals are...

    Here's an interesting article on Urban/Rural Oregon, although this theory can certainly apply to several US states...
     
    Egoboy, Jun 24, 2019
    #94
  20. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Once again Republicans want to claim that empty fields and anonymous trees and rocks speak louder than actual people and are always staunchly Republican. This is not the Presidential election, there is no Electoral College and one voter gets one vote no matter if he lives in the city or the country. The majority of the PEOPLE want these laws and a cadre of violent elitists who live in rural areas should not dictate to the state's majority
     
    Aleksander Ulyanov, Jun 24, 2019
    #95
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  21. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ah yes.

    So "for the environment" that you put Oregon businesses out of business, then buy the same products from China that are made in factories that pollute the world far more than the factories in America.

    Leftists are brilliant.

    I hope the bill does go into law. It would end the Democrat party in Oregon.
     
    vman12, Jun 24, 2019
    #96
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  22. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    "The majority of the PEOPLE want these laws..."

    Please explain why the bill is written in such a way as to be immune from the referendum process.

    Surely the majority of the PEOPLE would vote in its favor.
     
    Thought Criminal, Jun 24, 2019
    #97
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  23. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Oh bullshit too. If those areas are having a hardship they can petition to be granted an exemption like everyone else does in these situations. What's happening is that the industrialist fat cats who almost certainly live out of state want to pollute the entire state's air and so have bought these Republican reps lock stock and barrel to do their bidding.
     
    Aleksander Ulyanov, Jun 24, 2019
    #98
  24. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I believe they would, but OK.... because going through the referendum process is just more Republican delay tactics...

    SNIP
    Contrary to that rhetoric, the emergency clause doesn’t preempt voters from weighing in — it just makes things harder. Under state law, opponents could still seek to upend the law via an initiative petition asking voters to throw it out. That would allow opponents to craft the text of their initiative, but would require them to collect more than 35,000 additional valid signatures compared to the referendum process.
    ENDSNIP

    NOTE - There is a LOT more in this article about the emergency clause, but I don't want to overpost from a source...

    https://www.opb.org/news/article/oregon-senate-walkout-cap-trade-climate-bill/

    What else would you like to know that you could easily look up on your own?
     
    Egoboy, Jun 24, 2019
    #99
  25. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    There ya go.

    It's written in such a way as to be immune from the referendum process. I believe that that is what I said.
     
    Thought Criminal, Jun 24, 2019
    #100
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