Kushner's "deal of the century" falls flat on it's face

Discussion in 'United States' started by EarthSky, Jun 27, 2019.

  1. Quadhole

    Quadhole Well-Known Member

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    If the Filthy Palestinians would just understand they are 2nd class citizens and be happy for whatever the chosen ones tell them is best, then things could go forward.... After all, how could anyone that is not Jewish expect to be treated as such... Like a human when you are nothing more than an APE to them...
     
  2. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I tell people, "If you are going to establish an opinion based upon the Internet then be honest with yourself
    and find the alternative opinion - and take that on board as well.
    And for you - read the Jewish POV. A good site for this is https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/myths-and-facts-the-refugees
    an example:


    MYTH
    "The Jews created the refugee problem by expelling the Palestinians."

    FACT
    Had the Arabs accepted the 1947 UN resolution, not a single Palestinian would have become a refugee. An independent Arab state
    would now exist beside Israel. The responsibility for the refugee problem rests with the Arabs.

    The beginning of the Arab exodus can be traced to the weeks immediately following the announcement of the UN partition resolution.
    The first to leave were roughly 30,000 wealthy Arabs who anticipated the upcoming war and fled to neighboring Arab countries to await
    its end. Less affluent Arabs from the mixed cities of Palestine moved to all-Arab towns to stay with relatives or friends.6 By the end of
    January1948, the exodus was so alarming the Palestine Arab Higher Committee asked neighboring Arab countries to refuse visas to
    these refugees
    and to seal their borders against them.7

    On January 30, 1948, the Jaffa newspaper, Ash Sha'ab, reported: "The first of our fifth-column consists of those who abandon their

    houses and businesses and go to live elsewhere....At the first signs of trouble they take to their heels to escape sharing the burden of
    struggle."8


    Another Jaffa paper, As Sarih (March 30, 1948) excoriated Arab villagers near Tel Aviv for "bringing down disgrace on us all by 'abandoning

    the villages.'"9

    Meanwhile, a leader of the Arab National Committee in Haifa, Hajj Nimer el-Khatib, said Arab soldiers in Jaffa were mistreating the residents.
    "They robbed individuals and homes. Life was of little value, and the honor of women was defiled. This state of affairs led many [Arab] residents
    to leave the city under the protection of British tanks."10

    John Bagot Glubb, the commander of Jordan's Arab Legion, said: "Villages were frequently abandoned even before they were threatened by

    the progress of war."11

    Contemporary press reports of major battles in which large numbers of Arabs fled conspicuously fail to mention any forcible expulsion by the
    Jewish forces. The Arabs are usually described as "fleeing" or "evacuating" their homes. While Zionists are accused of "expelling and
    dispossessing" the Arab inhabitants of such towns as Tiberias and Haifa, the truth is much different. Both of those cities were within the boundaries
    of the Jewish State under the UN partition scheme and both were fought for by Jews and Arabs alike.

    Jewish forces seized Tiberias on April 19, 1948, and the entire Arab population of 6,000 was evacuated under British military supervision. The
    Jewish Community Council issued a statement afterward: "We did not dispossess them; they themselves chose this course....Let no citizen touch
    their property."12

    Haifa area following an offensive by the irregular forces led by Fawzi al-Qawukji, and rumors that Arab air forces would soon bomb the Jewish
    areas around Mt. Carmel.13 On April 23, the Haganah captured Haifa. A British police report from Haifa, dated April 26, explained that "every
    effort is being made by the Jews to persuade the Arab populace to stay and carry on with their normal lives, to get their shops and businesses open
    and to be assured that their lives and interests will be safe."14 In fact, David Ben-Gurion had sent Golda Meir to Haifa to try to persuade the Arabs to
    stay, but she was unable to convince them because of their fear of being judged traitors to the Arab cause.
    15 By the end of the battle, more than
    50,000 Palestinians had left.
     
  3. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    You first mistake is there never was in the past a Palestinian State. At least in Israel region. So, Jerusalem is a town in Israel, period. Why should Israel give up part of a city? Especially Jerusalem?
     
  4. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That 700,000 figure for "refugees" seems to go up all the time.
    It would be good if we could discern who was a "refugee" and
    who had:
    fled the fighting
    were driven out from strategically important towns
    were forced out by Arab soldiers raping and looting
    were wealthy enough to leave of their own volition
    were forced out by the Mullahs (majority)
    were blindsided by Arab propaganda

    Those who left because of the Mullahs should stay out. They were
    urged by the Israelis to pay no attention and stay in their towns. As
    for the others, I feel they have rights.

    There are two REAL ISSUES with these cases though
    1 - Palestinians lost a war they started. Losers don't make the demands
    2 - Half a million Jews are refugees from seven Arab countries and have no right of return
    3 - Arabs don't come from Palestine, the Jews do.
    4 - Palestinians DO accept Israeli peace and land offers - after they have been withdrawn (common Arab complaint against Palestinians)
    5 - Palestinians don't want Right of Return and Six Day War boundaries etc. - they want all of Palestine back.
    6 - Palestinians won't do a deal when they can internationalize the conflict - at the risk of a global nuclear war (think 1967 and 1973)

    better stop, got to go....
     
  5. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    I consider the JVL about as unbiased and honest source of information as I did Camera or aipac.

    Of course your version is a completely
    sanitised version of the brutal reality made for Israeli and American consumption.

    It is as if the Haganah pogroms or massacres like Dier Yassim never happened and the Jewish militias were running around Palestine handing out flowers and hugs. And I think you know the truth and this is just another attempt to astroturf it over.

    It's a long weekend here and I'm mot going to spend it point by point rebutting your post but I do think it us worth at least trying to bring out the truth of the brutality of Israel's cleansing if Palestinian territories starting in 1948.

    So if this thread is still alive next week, let's explore how valid any of the claims JVL is making are and the truth of how the occupation came about.

    JVL......lol:machinegun:this was the reality. I bet bibi says the haganah were handing out flowers too.
     
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  6. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Palestinians have no interest in COEXISTING.
     
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  7. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Tellingly, the story of Dier Yassim is that it is celebrated by Palestinians and mourned by Jews.
    I saw mourned because it allowed Israel to be portrayed in a way it sought hard to avoid. Yes,
    there were terrorist groups in Israel during the British days, and fighting the Arabs. But it ought not
    to reflect upon the general Jewish ideal of Arab and Jew living together peacefully.
    It was a paramilitary group who were not acting govt. policy. Israel made an issue of the massacre,
    and apologized to Dier Yassim's govt - which was Jordan.
    Dier Yassim was not like America or England with fire bombing campaigns.
    A win for the Arabs in 1948 and 1967 would have seen Dier Yassims happening in every Jewish
    town - as govt policy.
     
  8. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The occupation came about with the expulsion of the Jews after three Roman wars.
    Rome brought in foreign people to occupy Israel. Rome renamed Jerusalem to Capitol
    Aelia Capitolina and renamed Israel to Palestine.
    Arabs became a majority after the rise of Islam. The land belonged to Turkey but was
    claimed by Jordan, Egypt and Syria - mostly. Many more Arabs flocked to Palestine when
    the economy began growing in the early days of Jewish farming and light industry. But they
    didn't like more Jews migrating to Palestine, and refused various negotiations by Britain, the
    UN and the Jews. The rest is history.
     
  9. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    Yes, The land was renamed, not the Arab people. There are no “Palestinians.” There are Arabs and there are Jews in the land of Israel which came first. How the land was given to the Jews was a miracle by almighty Jesus Christ as a sign of fulfillment of a prophecy. Arabs need to agree to live peacefully and accept Israel. They have no claim to any land inside Israel including Jerusalem or any part of Jerusalem.
     
  10. James Evans

    James Evans Banned

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    That is such horsesh1t. Israel has nukes and a well-trained military. Nobody will seriously threaten them beyond posturing. This is Trump doing Israel's bidding and I don't want to pay for it.
     
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  11. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You can fight a nuclear power enemy. Nations do it against the USA today. It's
    called "asymmetric warfare." The main weapon today the Palestinians use is
    international pressure. Without it Fatah and Hamas would have to negotiate.
    It is thus that "we" of the West have compounded the issue. Unlike Germany
    and Japan, "Palestine" never conceded defeat and thus hasn't been able to
    start all over again with its society, industry etc..
     
  12. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They will with the Jewish survivors. After a thousand Dier Yassims the survivors will be
    treated as second class citizens. You wouldn't see any multi-lingual signs in Israel any
    more - just Arabic. And no Jews would weep at their wailing wall, let alone worship on
    their temple mount.
     
  13. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The only state the Palestinians have a right to is the one that every individual has a right to, one that protects freedom of thought.
     
  14. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    Jordan is Palestine.
    Simple.
     
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  15. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is then Gaza Egypt?
    and Galilee Syria?
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
  16. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    Gaza is a part of Egypt.
    I can't understand why the Egyptians hate their Bedouin brothers.
    Galillee and the Golan hights are Israel.
     
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  17. Pipette8

    Pipette8 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder where those billions of dollars were going to come from. Umm, American taxpayers.
     
  18. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All Jews are survivors. They’ve learned to cope in a hostile world.
     
  19. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Israel should have left the West Bank as part of Jordan.

    they would have a lot fewer problems if they did

    [​IMG]
     
  20. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    Arabs hate Palestinians the most, Next to Jews
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
  21. free man

    free man Well-Known Member

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    Sure, dead people have a lot fewer problems than live ones.
     
  22. free man

    free man Well-Known Member

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    This war of Arabs against the Jews have been going on for the last 100 years.
    Huge number of 'deal' were suggested by the west and had been rejected by the Arabs.
    One whould think the west would have learned by now, there is no deal, the war is the end not the mean.
    But no one is learning. New people come all the time with zero historic perspective and think they will solve it.
    What they try to solve is the symptom, not the problem.
    In endless war, you just have to wistand it until the other side it too tired to fight or run out of resources.
    Any deal suggestion only add more insentive to the Arab war lords, they think the breaking point of the Jews is close.
    Israei Jews have been waiting for 2000 years to have their state back, the can wait a couple of centuries for the Arabs to stop attacking them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
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  23. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wow... was that Jordan pre-1967? Interesting.
    Under Turkish rule there were no nations as we know them in this area.
    People talk about how "colonial powers carved up the Middle East" but
    what else was there - just Turkey?
     
  24. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good points. Underscoring lots of this is Islamic humiliation that their people are poor and backward,
    and Christians are rich, free and prosperous. Lots of this friction becomes focused upon Israel - this
    tiny nation represents one tenth of one percent of the Arab and Persian Middle East.
    The Jews aren't going anywhere. This is their home. Should they fall to Islamic forces then no doubt
    Israel will discharge all her nuclear weapons at all the Islamic centers.
    We should know that this Gaza and the West Bank business is just a symptom of much bigger things.
     
  25. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is not a deal but the US confirming illegal colonisation with a large Bribe which would not be accepted and which could never result in reconciliation. A silly little publicity stunt trying to use the rise of the far right to support the colonisation of Palestine and the Holy Sites of the 3 Abraham faiths by Israel all in order to allow Christian Zionism to create Armageddon and hence the end of the worlds Jews. Interestingly the only Arab state which is opposing this is Kuwait and the reason for this is because it is semi democratic. Being semi democratic it needs to listen to the will of the people, the others it would seem just have their own interests whether that is a promise from the United States to destroy Iran so that the arab states do not start thinking again of democracy or just greed.

    https://consortiumnews.com/2019/06/...gulf-monarchies-complicated-ties-with-israel/
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019

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