Kushner's "deal of the century" falls flat on it's face

It would also be good if we recognize that Israel's well-armed and well-organized militias immediately went on the prowl rooting Palestinians from their homes while massacring women and children. This happened almost immediately upon the formation of the state of Israel and the ethnic cleansing has continued at slow boil right to the present day:

"Violence between the two communities, and between both and the British authorities, grew common throughout the 1930s and ’40s, including a fully fledged Arab revolt from 1936 to 1939. But as it became clear that Britain was simply going to leave Palestine in 1948, both sides began jockeying for position. Communal violence broke out into open warfare in the fall of 1947. This set the stage for the nakba.

Fighting intensified in January 1948, and the Palestinian exodus began. Up to 100,000 Palestinians, mainly from the upper and middle classes, fled the cities and towns which were the epicenter of the fighting. Until then, expulsions were rare. But in April 1948, the Jewish forces launched a more concerted campaignof massacre and forced displacement, including the notorious Deir Yassin massacre of about 100 Palestinians on April 9. This spread panic among Palestinians, encouraging them to flee.

When terror didn’t do the trick, Palestinians were forced out by Jewish militias. Early April saw the launch of the “Plan Dalet” military campaign, which sought, in part, the ethnic cleansing of most or all of the Arab inhabitants from areas claimed for a Jewish state. As the British withdrew from Palestine in early May 1948, Israel declared its establishment, and the war intensified with the intervention of several Arab armies. The process of Palestinian displacementalso intensified. Yitzhak Rabin, then a young Jewish commander, would later write in his memoir of how he was ordered by David Ben-Gurion—literally with the wave of a hand—to “drive out” the 50,000 civilians in the towns of Lydda and Ramla on June 10 and 11."

https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...g-of-nakba-israel-palestine-1948-gaza/560294/

Wrong Palestinians didn't start the war. There were tensions between the two communities as the date approached for the creation of Israel. Before that Jews lived in relative peace in Palestine at the same time they were being persecuted all through Europe. Zionism changed all that. The Palestinians didn't even have an army. How could the villagers have started a war?

Weird argument. Why would they want to return to Arab countries if it is even true that they came from there? They have almost all of Palestine why go back to Arab countries? And what proof do you have they even had homes there in significant numbers? The Palestinians were driven from their homes by Jewish militias.

Of course Arabs come from Palestine. The Jews have had no claim to the land since biblical times and even then, the so-called Semites are pretty much the same people. Jews actually trace their origins to the fertile crescent rather than Palestine as such but with all the diasporas over the centuries the lines have all become blurred enough to be meaningless as to who has a historic claim to the land.

Absolutely no truth to any of your last three points. Palestinians have never accepted a peace plan that did not include two-states that share Jerusalem as a capital and right of return. The settlements are a whole other issue and are illegal under international law.

 

Settlements are a big issue even to most secular Jews. Minority govt fosters this problem.
A pox on every settler, I say.
But settlement aren't the cause of the troubles - settlers took advantage of the stalemate
to claim more of the ancient land of Israel. They do have a point - but I don't accept it.
Millions of Arabs live peacefully, prosperously and freely in Israel. During 1948 the Israeli
govt pleaded with Arabs not to leave. F.A.C.T.

As an aside - the Jewish POV on Yassin (despite the govt apologizing to Jordan for the killing)
was that Arabs, the same Arabs starving Jews to death in Jerusalem and killing those trying to
free them) were fighting from their own houses, and at night. It reminds me of how Hamas fires
rockets from schools and hospitals, daring the Jews to strike back.

Another thing about Yassin were reports of rapes. One of the journalists freely admitted later
there were no rapes, he reported this to increase the sense of urgency in the international
community and Arab nations to step in. This story had the opposite effect, it caused many
Arabs to flee their villages.

 

This is nothing but a whitewash of historical fact. Israel never allowed itself to be portrayed as it really was - which was an occupying force engaged in ethnic cleansing from the very beginning.

There was never a general idea of Israel and Arabs living peacefully together. Zionism has always been about removing the last Arab from Palestine. I know you are probably not going to watch anything that challenges your narrative about Israel but in case anyone else is interested I am going to post a very well-documented and researched, award-wining documentary on the history of the Jewish/Palestinian struggle: Occupation 101, Warning this is hard to watch but it is the truth:



So sorry, the entire documentary cannot be watched free on youtube without signing in anymore likely algorithm censorship of material groups like Camera and Aipac do not want you to see. I will post the first few little snips though:



this part documents the events of '48 in good detail.



An in case you are going to call me anti-Semetic, a tactic Israel's defenders always seem to fall back to, I regularly quote such raging anti-semites as Noam Chomsky, Phyllis Bennis, Norman Finklestein and the Zionist general's son himself, Miko Peled who grew up in privilege with the myths of a "country without a people for a people without a country."

He then came to discover the truth about what really happened and continues to lecture about it:

Admitting the truth
"It didn’t matter that Peled overcame a racist ideology. That’s his own personal journey of growth. Nor did it matter that he went so far past his fears that he befriended and came to love certain Palestinian individuals. It didn’t matter that he embarked on humanitarian projects to help. Or that he participated in protests that got him arrested by the Israeli occupation forces.

In the end, what truly mattered was setting the record straight and acknowledging that Palestinians are native sons and daughters who have been cruelly dispossessed of home, history, heritage and story. What mattered was the acknowledgement. Uttering the truth, no matter how painful, is what I needed to hear. Because it was in that admission that Miko Peled became a man I could embrace as a brother and fellow countryman.

In that sense, it can be said that this book is about how Miko Peled was transformed from being the general’s son to being a native son of the land."

 

Not true. Jews lived in relative peace in Palestine before the coming of Zionism. This while they were terribly persecuted all through Europe.


Genetically, Jews originate in the fertile crescent and are grouped with others such as Druze, Levantine Arabs and Assyrians. Arabs and Jews are actually very closely related and there was a long genetic history far before the Roman's were even a thing:

"A DNA study of "six Middle Eastern populations (Ashkenazi, Sephardic, and Kurdish Jews from Israel; Muslim Kurds; Muslim Arabs from Israel and the Palestinian Authority Area; and Bedouin from the Negev)" found that Jews were more closely related to groups in the north of the Fertile Crescent (Kurds, Turks, and Armenians) than to their Arab neighbors.[12][13]

Genetic studies indicate that modern Jews (Ashkenazi, Sephardic and Mizrahi specifically), Levantine Arabs, Assyrians/Syriacs, Samaritans, Maronites, Druze, Mandaeans, and Mhallami, all have a common Near Eastern heritage which can be genetically mapped back to the ancient Fertile Crescent, but often also display genetic profiles distinct from one another, indicating the different histories of these peoples.[14]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people

 

Yup. It was over 3.8 billion a year to support Israel's illegal occupation and ethnic cleansing of Palestine directly from US taxpayers. It is more than that now - which was strangely begun under Obama which is hard to understand. That is the most international aid that America spends anywhere else - this at the same time the Trump admin. has cut all aid to Palestinian refugees.

 

Actually, Christians are often subject to the same persecution and repression as Arabs are. According to Norman Fincklestein among many others, Israel is a deeply authoritarian and racist society - there are exceptions of course but in general.

Peled says this too.

 

While I do appreciate the way you have conducted yourself on a subject that often gets nasty really fast, I have to disagree with most of what you state. Unless, of course you have some credible data to back up your claims such as that the Israeli govt. was pleading with Arabs not to leave.

"The Israeli censor’s observant eye had missed file number GL-18/17028 in the State Archives. Most files relating to the 1948 Palestinian exodus remain sealed in the Israeli archives, despite the fact that their period as classified files − according to Israeli law − expired long ago. Even files that were previously declassified are no longer available to researchers. In the past two decades, following the powerful reverberations triggered by the publication of books written by those dubbed the “New Historians,” the Israeli archives revoked access to much of the explosive material. Archived Israeli documents that reported the expulsion of Palestinians, massacres or rapes perpetrated by Israeli soldiers, along with other events considered embarrassing by the establishment, were reclassified as “top secret.” Researchers who sought to track down the files cited in books by Benny Morris, Avi Shlaim or Tom Segev often hit a dead end. Hence the surprise that file GL-18/17028, titled “The Flight in 1948” is still available today."

https://www.haaretz.com/.premium-ben-gurion-grasped-the-nakba-s-importance-1.5243033

Perhaps the truth is not what the govt. of Israel ever wanted to get out.

 

"Authoritarian" and "racist" ?????
I thought Israel was a democratic and multi-cultural society.
My wrong.

 

I've noticed that those who support profoundly undemocratic, authoritarian and bigoted regimes - like Iran's theocracy - are the same people who claim Israel is bad because it's authoritarian and racist. Talk about cognitive dissonance.

 

Iran?
Go no further than Fatah, and worse, Hamas.

 

Ever read about American atrocities against Germans in WWII? And the outright massacre
of Japanese military personnel and millions of civilians - mostly firebombed?
Do you think these documents would reveal Israel did anything like this to their tormentors?
No, but the Arabs tried to do it to Israel.
Wasn't it just a few weeks ago that Hamas fired SIX HUNDRED ROCKETS AT ISRAELI
CIVILIANS. Should be wholesale condemnation, UN reports, mass protests etc.. but nothing
of the sort happened.
There's a standard for the Jews, and a standard for the Arabs.

 

Your second proposition assumes the first is correct.
But you still have to prove the first.

 

You are incorrect. Other than Israel, where else in the region is it safe to walk through town wearing a yarmulke, cross, gay flag, a shirt with a message critical of government/religion?

 

No worries. Israel was established on Zionist principles to reform a JEWISH state in Palestine an act that wiped out over 500 Palestinian villages and saw the forced expulsion of over 700,000 Palestinians from their homes. this expulsion included at least 70 documented massacres or mass killing of civilians.

The 1948 mandate gave Israel 47% of Palestine. It now occupiers over 90% including strict control of Palestinian borders and access points and has enforced an almost total embargo on the Gaza territory restricting through armed checkpoints all access to and from the territory.

Israel maintains over 70 discriminatory laws that work to exclude the rights of Palestinian and other non-Jewish people within the country itself. These include right of return laws such that any Jewish person can claim citizenship no matter where they are born while Palestinians including those driven from their homes in Israel proper are denied citizenship.

Israel classifies it's citizens as to nationality and these restrictions can and do include access to housing and laws concerning political parties and activities. Housing and education have policies of separation for Jews and non-Jews. As well there is a government policy which includes many laws to discourage relationships between Arabs and Jews. Israel maintains a different set of rights between "national rights" and "citizen rights." National rights are reserved exclusively for Jews. As Justice Minister, Sheked confirmed in a statement earlier this year, "Israel should provide ‘equal rights to all citizens but not equal national rights.’ She added: ‘Israel is a Jewish state. It isn’t a state of all its nations."

More reading if you are interested:

Notes.

[1]‘Minority Life in Israel.’ Rula Jebreal; New York Times Op-Ed, October 27th2014.

2‘Why Israel is an apartheid state.’ Jonathan Cook, March 2018

3‘Minority Life in Israel…’

[4]‘Israel steps up its war on mixed marriages.’ David Sheen, Electronic Intifada, 23rdJuly 2018

[5]‘About Half of Israeli Jews want to expel Arabs.’ Jeffrey Heller, Reuters, March 8th, 2016

[6]‘52% of Israeli Jews agree that African migrants are a cancer.’ Times of Israel, 7thJune 2012

[7]‘This racist new Law makes me ashamed to be Israeli.’ The Guardian, Monday 23rdJuly 2018

 

I've noticed that people who don't like to have their cherished beliefs and dearly held myths challenged with facts and documented information often use the strawman argument ( If you can call it an argument) that this means you support terrorists or regimes like Iran's.

It would have probably been more cogent to the topic to accuse me of supporting Hamas as this is often Israel apologists favorite deflection.

For the record, I do not support either Hamas or the government of Iran.

My main concern is the US starting yet another disastrous war of regime change such as that of Iraq, Libya or Syria which kills thousands and creates chaos and death around the region and forces yet more refugees to desperate flight from war zones and humanitarian disasters.

The weapon manufacturers and war profiteers you are supporting love war and death. The rest of the American people who can see through the warmongering and lies.....probably have had enough of this sh*t.

 

How many people were killed by those rockets? How many civilians are killed when Israel "mows the lawn" or "cuts the grass" in Palestine?

Your damn right there is a standard for Jews and a standard for Arabs. Jews can kill, maim and attack neighbors with impunity because everything they do is supported by the US and any international laws such as the 4th Geneva convention can be disregarded by Israel thinks to US veto (over and over again) in the UN. US will not even sign onto the international court of law.
Wonder why? Just look at Palestine for the answer.

 

Really?:

"Palestinian Christians living in occupied Jerusalem are fighting back against Israeli attempts to take away their land. Their struggle to remain in the historic city was raised by Christian Todayin a report today where the non-denominational Christian news agency said that “Christians in Jerusalem are warning of another attempt by Israeli parliamentarians to take land they own”.

Israeli lawmakers have made repeated attempts to confiscate or nationalise church-owned lands. The latest threat against the Christian community was made before Christmas; it is thought to be the fifth occasion on which factions within the governing coalition sought to impose legislation which would allow the expropriation of Church lands......The Palestinian Christian population has fallen dramatically since the creation of Israel. Christians make up two per cent of the population of both Israel and the Palestinian territories – the number used to be around 15 per cent. In Bethlehem alone, the Christian population has slumped to 7,500 from 20,000 in 1995. While tension across the Middle East has led to Christian’s fleeing parts of the Middle East, in Palestine the Israeli occupation is cited as the prime cause of emigration and the decline of the Christian community......
Attacks by Israeli settlers on churches and other religious sites has become a common feature in occupied Palestine. Abusive Hebrew graffiti are often found on the walls of churches, and many more are vandalised. A group of Israeli Jewish settlers operating under the “Price Tag” label have carried out hundreds of attacks against Christian sites as well as Palestinian facilities, farms, cars, churches, mosques and homes.

Palestinian Christian leaders touring the West repeatedly highlight the risk they face under Israeli occupation. A member of the Greek Melkite Catholic Patriarchate in Jerusalem warned an audience in London about the plight of Arab Christians saying “the flight of Arab Christians from the holy land will turn churches into museums.”

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/2...m-warn-of-israel-attempts-to-take-their-land/

https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/R...significant-rise-in-reported-incidents-584006

https://www.jta.org/2019/02/08/opinion/israel-has-a-racism-problem-here-are-3-ways-to-help-fix-it

https://972mag.com/when-racism-in-israel-becomes-the-legitimate-right-of-its-jewish-citizens/136332/

Though you are correct in the sense that gay rights and rights to criticize governments are severely restricted in Islamic countries which is wrong. However, US ally Saudi Arabia is as bad and worse than any of them.

What you are not understanding is how Jewish settlers treat Palestinians and often Christians nor that racism is institutionalized by law.

 

Palestinians are their own worst enemy. They are kept angry and primitive to preserve their willingness to be used a pawns against Israel. While Israel does have issues, those with a genuine concern for human rights have a lot of work in the surrounding region before giving advice to Israel.

 

They are kept angry and primitive by illegal occupation of their land which is the source of much of the tension around the land. They are not being used as pawns. They are living in hell in the world's largest open air prison and subject to the worst brutality one can imagine by occupying forces in defience of the 4th Geneva convention

 

Who gives a ****. The palestinians are just a bunch of nomadic squatters in a shithole area of the world who just also happen to be terrorists by nature. They've started wars and every time they've lost ground. That's what happens when you're a bunch of losers. I don't really give a damn about the Israelis, but they aren't occupying anything.

 

When will we deal with the BIGGER issue ??? The Jewish Nakba !!
1000000 Jews were expelled and deported from their homes and villages in Arab countries .

 

I accept the account of the Jews. And at the time the Arabs did as well. Only later did Iran and the Arabs change
the narrative. After all - there's compensation of quarter of a trillion dollars coming, and the loss of the moral
authority over Palestinian "refugees."
As it is - half a million Jews and half a million Arab refugees - should square the account, don't you think?

 

I do not accept the account of the Jews. Since it's a fact that the Israeli Jews tried to bribe the Iranian Jews to leave.

And even if it was true. The entire idea that when some Jew in a totally different country is being wronged by an Arab means it squares off that a Jew may do something wrong to any random Arab.... that's just utterly and utterly racist and a typical Israeli way of demanding ethnic cleansing is a justifiable thing. The way you lot are ranting this racist argument means people can thieve 10's of billions of bucks from random Jews since you know... Bernie Madoff was a Jew who stole a massive amount of people, while an Arab gets to kill some Jewish child since Jews in Israel kill far more Arab children than the other way around.

 

Well let's put it this way - a similar number of refugees exist on both sides.
Neither Arabs nor Jews want a return to the status quo.
For the Jew "right of return" means the end of the first Jewish state in 2,000 years.
For the Arab "right of return" is largely a racist notion. Like most others, Arabs hate
Jews.
So let's just leave it the way it is, or... get the $250,000,000,000 compensation from
Arab/Persian quarters and give it to the Palestinian "refugees."
Bernie is in jail for a long time. His race doesn't matter.

 

You are incorrect. They do not get their information from Israel. Their leaders keep them angry and primitive to preserve their willingness to launch attacks from populated areas in hopes of drawing fire so they have images they can use to gain sympathy. Their hell is self-inflicted.