US Spy Plane Intercepted by Russian Jet over Black Sea

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Jazz, Jul 5, 2019.

  1. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    The Crimean vote in 91 was "identical"??

    Really? Provide source for it....credible one.

    Since in 91 from what I remember was 66% or so leaving the SU and Russia.

    What "self determination" in Crimea? There's nothing but Russki military there since annexation.:roflol:
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
  2. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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  3. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So controversial this sounds, but you are so right... it is the nukes that keeps everybody at bay! Thanks to the Germans who invented and built the first atom bomb, but Hitler found it too gruesome and halted/forbade further development.

    https://www.pravda-tv.com/2016/05/spektakulaere-neue-indizien-hitler-hatte-die-atombombe-video/
     
  4. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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  5. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Jazz said:
    Yes, I remember the incident with Ukraine. NATO would be a tad more difficult, though.
    Oh, are they still around in Syria? Tartus, if I remember correctly.
    Misunderstanding! Remember the two or three Ukrainian ships provoking Putin? Those I meant.
    Yet, Israel bombs Syria frequently, and Trump gives Syria's Golan Heights to Israel!
     
  6. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Banned

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    You remember wrong. It was for LEAVING UKRAINE.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1992/05/06/world/crimea-parliament-votes-to-back-independence-from-ukraine.html

    Jan 20, 1991 A referendum is held in the Crimea on restoring autonomy to the region. Over 80% of the electorate participates, of which 93.26% supported the "restoration of the Crimean ASSR as a subject of the USSR and as a party to the Union Treaty."
    Feb 12, 1991 The Ukrainian Supreme Soviet restores the Crimea as an autonomous republic within the borders of the Ukraine.

    https://www.refworld.org/docid/469f38ec2.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Crimean_sovereignty_referendum
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  7. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thank you for explaining the geographies so nicely.
    I would guess that for the duration of the NATO drills the rules have been temporarily suspended.
    As you said, these exercises are a provocation to Russia, and I couldn't agree more! Putin must be biting his nails the whole time.​
     
  8. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In any case, claiming that "66% of nothing but Russki military" voted for "leaving the SU and Russia" gives you a clue that someone is not thinking very well.
     
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  9. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    In the view of The Donald, NO treaties exist any more. We are above the law.
     
  10. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Nato only reacts is a member of Nato is attacked. Ukraine is not Nato, so it's not an issue of Nato.

    Trump did not give ****. Them Jews have hold on the Golan Heights illegally for decades. And in return they are being bombed as well. That entire nation is totally militarized, where everybody knows where the bomb shelters are. It is pathetic and humiliating that they have to live like that. But that's the price they are paying every day for their war criminal ways.
     
  11. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    As far as the Golan Heights are concerned....Syria of the day and now can thank in FULL the former SU for their loss of the Golan back in the 6 day war of 67....it was the SU in part that helped co-engineer that adventure that basically led to the loss of the territory.

    If I were the Syrians I would've been livid with the vatniks. But with friends like that who needs enemies!:)).
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  12. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In 1992 Crimea was a legal democratic secular state until 1995 when Ukraine marched in and forcefully took it over. To keep that from happening again, the Crimeans chose in 2014 to unite with Russia as protection.

    Here a bit by Paul Craig Roberts from: http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/03/28/so-who-annexed-crimea-peninsular-then.html

    Something else “our” government and its media whores did not tell us is that under the Crimean Constitution of 1992, Crimea existed as a legal, democratic, secular state. Crimea’s relationship with Ukraine was based on bilateral agreements. In 1995 Ukrainian special ops forces and Ukrainian Army troops invaded Crimea and annexed the territory.

    The Autonomous Republic of Crimea was established by the 1991 All-Union Referendum in which 94% of Crimeans voted in favor of re-establishing their status as an autonomous republic. Crimeans repeated the vote in 2014 by an even higher percentage, and this time prevented another Ukrainian invasion by reuniting with Russia.

    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/03/28/ukraine-annexed-crimea-1990s/
     
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  13. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Banned

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    Correct.

    Crimea voted to re-establish their independence in 1991......then a few years later the Ukraine government declared Crimea's constitution void, marched in, and took it back by force.

    When Ukraine government pulled their anti-Russian stunts in 2014, the Crimeans declared independence again but this time wisely voted to join Russia....and Russia agreed. Crimea has been part of Russia for hundreds of years, except for when it was 'gifted' by executive order in 1954 to Soviet Ukraine.
     
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  14. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Paul Craig Roberts happened to be a frequent guest on RT (Russia Today)....so to make a long story short....a bought and paid for vatnik shill!:))

    Ukranian special ops invaded and annexed....too funny. How do you invade and annex your own territory??:roflol:
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  15. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    I'm responding to "and Trump gives Syria's Golan Heights to Israel!".... which is a total joke. And you add nothing to that.
     
  16. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Well yeah....trump gave Golan to Israel ...yes, technically it's been Israeli territory since 67...thanks in part to the Russkis.

    Possession is 9/10ths of the law....isn't that what the pro Russki consortium says here...lol.
     
  17. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump is part of a L-O-N-G line of American politicians who treat the world and their own population as though they are above the law.
     
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  18. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Expressed in terms that everyone should understand.

    plain language.jpg
     
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  19. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Russia has given Netanyahu a free hand in Syria, this is why Putin was so appalled when they caused a Russian plane to be knocked down thinking that Assad would be blamed. In retaliation he gave Syria the S-300's which he had previously held back as a favor to Israel.

    You have to realize that 1/3 of the people in Israel speak Russian, and they are not all Jews. Many are in laws that went there with their children. Besides that Putin lived with and was partially raised by an elderly Jewish couple, so there is an affinity. I also think that many of Putin's wealthy supporters are Jewish, and might be resented by those who ran out to escape paying taxes. This could be why the oligarchs close to Putin are being sanctioned by Washington. Of course this is only my opinion, I have no facts to base it on.
     
  20. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is not a joke at all. You surprise me not knowing what so recently happened:

    Trump gives the Golan Heights to Israel
    [​IMG]
    Trump does it again. Like his announcement of moving the U.S Embassy to Jerusalem, and his abrogation of the nuclear arms treaty with Iran and his support for Netanyahu in the upcoming elections, Trump seems to enjoy playing with matches in the gasoline filled Mideast. Trump announced that the Golan Heights, long part of Syria, now belongs to Israel. This announcement is contrary to UN resolutions and contrary to the foreign policy of just about every one of our allies.
    ....
    In 1981 Israel passed laws annexing the Golan Heights to Israel. The majority of the Arab population followed the Druze religion which is unique and more akin to Shia Islam than other religions. The Druze were offered Israeli citizenship due to the annexation and the majority accepted. However, the Palestinians living on the Golan were not offered citizenship. The Druze people in Israel and the West Bank have long been enlisting in the IDF and have been accepted as loyal citizens.

    Since 1967 Syria and Israel have had numerous peace discussions over the Golan. Assad’s father was very determined to regain the Golan Heights for Syria and in 2000 came close to an agreement. But it broke down over whether Syria would have access to the Sea of Galliee as they had historically. During Olmert’s administration Syria and Israel came very close to an agreement on all aspects of peace and territory. Now, as a result of Trumps announcement all previous discussions on peace and territory are moot..

    The worst part of Trump’s ill advised announcement is that it has given rise to the annexation voices in Israel and the winds of annexing the West Bank are blowing very strong. Natafli Bennett of the Israel Home party and fellow right wing parties are saying the precedent has been set, Israel can annex the West Bank and not provide citizenship to the Palestinians living there and Trump will support us. Whether these annexation winds are strong enough to get annexation bills passed in the Knesset, no one knows, but if they are expect the Mideast to explode.

    https://themoderatevoice.com/trump-gives-the-golan-heights-to-israel/
    ---
    I hope that will clarify things for you.
     
  21. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    You never have facts.....quotes/ links from RT can't even closely be considered as fact.
     
  22. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    You must've used Google translate to cut and paste that?
     
  23. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's right. Not very long after the fall of the USSR I was at Yad Vashem looking for the mention of my countryman, Raoul Wallenberg. I was all alone until a young man in his mid-20's hobbled uneasily into the park and sat down on a bench for a rest. He looked to be in some pain. We struck up a conversation and he told me that he'd recently come to Israel from Russia. And yes, he was in pain. He was Jewish ..... but you know how it was in Russia. The poor guy had just been administered brit millah.
     
  24. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The P-8 Poseidon airframe is nothing more than a commercial Boeing 737 where they added a weapons bombay and a whole crap load of electronics.

    The USA didn't have an air force that was a separate branch of the military until 1947.

    Before 1947 you had the U.S. Army Air Forces. (notice that forces is plural)

    Before 1942 there was the U.S. Army Air Corps.

    When the Army Air Corps grew in size consisting of more than three corps it became a force.

    There are squadrons, air groups, air wings, air corps and air forces.

    The Rule of 3

    3 rifle/infantry squads = platoon
    3 platoons = company
    3 companies = battalion
    3 battalions = regiment
    (reinforced regiment = brigade)
    3 regiments ir brigades = division
    3 divisions = corps
    3 corps = army

    During the 1920's it was Gen. Billy Mitchell (U.S. Army Air Corps) who advocated for having one separate branch of the military being solely in the air business.

    The response was as if Obama was President, they court martialed and fired Billy Mitchell.

    After WW ll the USA looked at Germany's Luftwaffe and the British RAF and decided to follow suit and have a separate branch of the military, the U.S. Air Force.

    But the U.S. Navy fought for having there own air force and the U.S.Marine Corps also wanted there own air corps who's main purpose is supporting the Marine rifleman on the ground.

    The Luftwaffe during WW ll had it right but failed to build enough long range heavy bombers to bomb the Soviets military industrial complex that was located east of Moscow out of range of German bombers.

    Germany's Luftwaffe had a long range heavy bomber on the drawing board that could reach and bomb New York City but there was an army corporal running the military back then.
     
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  25. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, I remember the incident where Israeli planes were hiding in the shadow of that Russian reconnaissance plane. Putin is a very patient man.
    Russia once was ruled and ruined by Jews. Naturally, they still have plenty of power and influence on Putin. He treated those criminally greedy oligarchs rather mildly and let them go way too soon. But he knows best not to antagonize them even further and tries hard to please them and get along with Netanyahu.
    Sharon: Putin a True Friend of Israel | News | The Moscow Times

    As long as Israel has the USA and Russia as their close friends and protectors it can do whatever it wishes to do with the rest of the world... maybe not yet China.
     

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