Never can Iran have a Nuclear Weapon

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by Bush Lawyer, Jun 25, 2019.

  1. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    How exactly is SCOTUS currently "taking away folks' rights?"

    What the hell? According to what?
     
  2. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your knowledge of what socialism is severly lacking.
     
  3. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Presently? North korea, venezuela, cuba, china. None ever got passed the socialisation step on their way to communism either.
     
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  4. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    By not stopping, for example, legislatures from enacting right-to-work laws.
     
  5. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Socialism is collectivizing production. If universal healthcare is delivered privately, then it isn't socialist.
    Not unless their healthcare is collectivized.
    Not these days. Bernie used to chortle away about government taking over industries, but he apparently lost heart when so many countries abandoned socialism.
     
  6. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    And how is "stoking race hatred is a form of shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater?"
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  7. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    There are no countries that practice one type of govt. We are a democratic socialist country. We and all other democracies are hybrids. Read the dictionary.
    By your definition, socialism does not exist. In reality, certain functions are socialized. For example, healthcare is completely socialized for service personnel. Healthcare insurance, is socialized for those over 65.

    Health Insurance is not the same as healthcare provider. Like wise, states can socialize different aspects of our economy that is not on the federal level. Cities can too. New York is trying to socialize health insurance.

    The majority of healthcare providers are private non profit.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  8. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    China's economic system is a blend of socialism and capitalism called a socialist market economy. Under this system, the state still owns the means of production, but the market portions out resources. They engage in free market competition.
     
  9. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Up to a point, then they either seize the company back and/or execute the manager. Chinese don't own anything, the party owns everything. China doesn't even has a military, the party own that too!
     
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  10. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    You can’t read a dictionary.
    Webster- socialism is a theory. Governments apply the theory to different aspects or CONDITIONS or SYSTEMS within a state.
    Interstate commerce is SOCIALIZED. HEALTH INSURANCE US SOCIALIZED OVER 65.
    Read the fking definitions. anyone can complete the meaning of socialism.
    There are no true socialist countries. Even those like Cuba who are within their borders in most conditions, must compete in capitalism in the world market. Look at 1b. It dies not say the entire society has to be socialized.

    1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
    2a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
    b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
    3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
     
  11. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When you want to learn how to cook you refer to a cookbook, not a dictionary.
    When you want to learn programing you refer to a programming language textbook, not a dictionary.
    When you want to learn about the different form of government you refer to a political textbook, not a ****ing dictionary.

    Forms of government are way more complex than a single phrase in a dictionnary can convey. As I said previously, your knowledge is quite limited.

    A dictionnary only give a definition of a word not a rule on how they apply or how they work.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
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  12. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    You don’t get it......it has nothing to do with the Chinese people.. GM manages auto plants in China. It has cooperative agreements with many Foreign entities in China.
    China competes on the world market. The country engages in capitalism on the open free world market.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  13. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    That’s absurd, Nothing you are saying now has any meaning with out a dictionary. I guess, you never studied a language either.
    You study words and their meanings first before you do anything else.

    You want to know what a country is after you know words and meanings, you study POLITICAL SCIENCE.
     
  14. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not china, the party. The CCP is the one in control. The chinese don't own ****.
    In each chinese office of foreign owned plants sit a CCP representative. He's the real boss, no one else and if a foreignh enterprise complaint too much then the CCP will just nationalize the plants and seize everything. So foreign company doing business in china just write a check to the representative. But if that representative become too greedy or doesn't pay those above him in the CCP, then he'll get remove and executed as it happens many time per years.

    This is the major difference with a capitalist country and a socialist one really. IN a capitalist country individual owns the riches, means of productions and ressources. IN a socialist country, no one but the party owns anything, not even their own existance.
     
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  15. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're really clueless lol.
    You sound just like those moron sovcit on youtube who try to argue with a cop or judge using the Black Laws Dictionnary instead of the actual law.
     
  16. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    'Socialism' is a word that is used in several different ways. One way is to mean an economy largely controlled by the state, where economic decisions are made by a central planning board, and there is no market in a meaningful sense. The wonderful novel by Francis Spufford, Red Plenty, gives a good insight into the problems of this kind of society. Another way to use the word is to refer to all state activity that is designed to improve the lives of ordinary people, especially when it involves some income tranfer from the better-off to the less-well-off. So in this usage, national health care is 'socialism'.

    There is no 'right' definition.

    For an interesting look at the Chinese vision, see here. The Chinese Communists realized forty years ago that central planning of everything, and state ownership of everything, didn't work. So they embraced the market, while keeping political control. (This approach was one of the possible paths of the Russian Revolution, after the Russians faced isolation when the German revolution did not occur. It was called the 'New Economic Policy', NEP, but was abandoned by Stalin in favor of total collectivism.) The state still has a major economic role in China, but mainly in a traditional capitalist way: providing infrastructure and education, and helping its own industries compete with foreign competitors.

    Almost no serious socialists today defend centralized planning. There are some thoughtful Marxists who advocate using the market to advance socialist goals, although not in the Chinese way, but via co-operatives, or other forms of worker-ownership of industry.
     
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  17. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Seriously, did you ever go to school and learn to read ?
    Every law written, has a glossary of terms with their meanings. Terms and meanings are a prerequisite for every decision and scientific discovery ever made. You really have crossed the FOS border to BS land.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  18. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Agree, but it really is not conflicted. The word, socialism is both, a system of government and a theory used to implement facets of our society. You can run a police forced based on socialism with elected officials who are accountable, or use capitalism and have rent a cop’s. The complete definition of socialism explains that.

    Conservatives seem to struggle with words that don’t agree with their land of Oz.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  19. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In my experience, both conservatives and liberals have great difficulty in dealing with, not words, but realities, that do not conform to their political beliefs. Having an ideology is very comfortable since it largely relieves one of the requirement to think.

    It's possible to use the word 'socialism' to simply mean 'state ownership', or state institutions. I believe it was Engels who said that if that was all the word meant, then the regimental tailor was the first socialist institution. Ah yes, here's the full quote:
    Source.

    It's largely a meaningless word now. 'Full' old-fashioned socialism -- state ownership of the means of production, a planned economy -- the socialism of generations of socialists -- is now a dead duck. No one believes in it. Everyone accepts the Austrian critique of socialism, the 'Socialist [or Economic] Calculation Question'. So now socialism just means using the state to do nice things: socialized medicine, more welfare, government infra-structure projects. Using 'socialism' as a scare-word to ward off these things, like some sort of amulet to repel evil spirits, is ridiculous. They have to be argued on their merits.

    Wise conservatives should know that. If we want to preserve capitalism, the most dynamic, liberating system that has ever existed, we need some 'socialism'.
     
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  20. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    So, who is dealing with reality and who isn’t, as far as AGW, healthcare and tax policy and trickle down is concerned ?
    Name a subject where both are equally reality “deficient.”
    Most Americans want universal healthcare, stronger gun laws and climate change mitigation. How could liberals be as out of touch with reality as conservatives in the gop.
     
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  21. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your trolling attempt are so juvenile lol.
     
  22. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    No retort other then name calling ?
    Seriously, when we were learning to read, terms/words and their meanings were among the first things we did. Maybe, without learning any words, you just read the Gettysburg address and by magic , knew what every word meant. So let’s get serious, only a BS er would deny the use of dictionary’s and glossaries.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  23. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Both conservatism and liberalism are broad movements, with lots of tendencies within each.
    I've argued with liberals/progressives here on things like welfare and race, where there was an extreme reluctance to face reality. Black kids don't do as poorly as they do, -- and they do, overall, pretty badly - because of 'white racism'. The people defecating on the sidewalks of San Francisco are not victims of capitalism. Open Borders will lead to a social catastrophe in the United States -- in fact, we are probably heading there anyway, which is why I hope everyone who's a small-d democrat is in possession of an AR15 and a thousand rounds of ammunition..

    I happen to favor some form of national health insurance, possibly modelled on the Singapore approach, so I can't argue there. As for AGW, I don't know enough to have an informed opinion. I do know that some very smart people don't agree with the AGW analysis, and I know that almost everyone who does have an opinion on it, knows even less than I do. I tend to be in favor of a lot of the things people who are worried about AGW are in favor of: push ahead with fusion research, build lots of fission reactors now (maybe that's a minority preference), push ahead with research to improve solar power and the storage of electrical energy ... and my prejudice, although I don't know enough about the economics of it to call it more than that -- is for high-speed electrical rail, although California's recent expensive failure makes me cautious here.

    As for stronger gun laws, that's a legitimate difference of opinion -- there isn't really much difference over the factual questions. I don't just assume the US has a nice peaceful future in store for it, in which we can always count on our kind government to protect us.

    I think liberals are naive about human nature in general, and conservatives are more realistic. And I have less quarrel with old-fashioned liberals -- FDR and JFK liberals -- than I do with the newest generation.
    It's hard to make generalizations here, but I think the idiots who are burning the American flag, covering pictures of George Washington in schools, violently shutting down conservative speakers on campuses, attacking the immigration service ... are ... wrong.

    But one has to argue each particular subject in detail. And, as I say, I don't -- or know that I shouldn't -- assume that all liberals/progressive are alike. Some, I know, are in favor of free speech, for example.
     
  24. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    I really have a problem with a party whose entire existence is based upon disinformation, denial of science and promotion of many things their own constituents want.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  25. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    The problem with arguing about generalities without backing assertions with concrete examples, is that little is meaningful.
     

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