Homeowner shot a 14-year-old during burglary attempt. The 5 other teens with him were charged with m

Discussion in 'United States' started by Steve N, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Okay, that's a valid point. I'll have to think of some example where these Iowa small-town Christian teenagers are, perhaps without knowing it, committing a felony.

    But ... let's not mix up the argument, if a gang of criminals are stealing your property or breaking into your home, should you shoot them before checking their IDs to see if they're above the age-limit (or, even crazier, should you shoot up in the air or call the police or show them your cancelled checks from your donations to Black Lives Matter) -- vs should a criminal be charged with murder if a fellow criminal was killed, where the crime was not on the face of it an intent to murder.
     
  2. arborville

    arborville Well-Known Member

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    That other kid made a choice to get involved. The other's did not drag him there, nor did they pull the trigger. Change the law.

     
  3. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    Don't matter if they're monks from St. Jude's Shrine. Stealing is stealing and ignorance of the law is no excuse.

    If they're juveniles the judge will be EXTREMELY soft on them, however.

    If they're 18 they're going in the hole.

    If ever SHTF thousands upon thousands of people will be killed while trying to steal food and crops, and likely many of those will be butchered, cooked, and eaten.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
  4. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Relevant to licensing guns, etc.
    Up until 1920 in the UK you could buy and carry concealed if physically possible, any weapon you liked.

    Then came the Russian Revolution and the partial radicalization of the British working class. The ruling class quickly passed a law requiring you to get a license for your weapon, and these were not given out freely. If you were a farmer, a rich hunter, maybe.

    The basic attitude, which grew with time and merged with Leftist let-the-state-take-care-of-you attitudes, is that you have no business defending yourself. Trying to do so is an implicit criticism of the omnipotent authorities. This is just an unstated attitude, not a law.

    But ... here's how it ends up.

    You're a farmer in Britain, living in a remote location. Wait, here's the full story from Wiki -- I've added some in-line commentary, italicized.
    More follows..
     
  5. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Anyway, there's the story. This is where America is headed. Please please please don't believe, well, that's just those faggy weak Brits, we Americans will never let that happen to us.

    There was a great public outcry in Britain in support of Tony Martin. The leftwing BBC 'Today' program did a national poll, in response to a proposed pro-self-defense 'Tony Martin' law ... their listeners were allowed to vote on which of five proposed new laws should be put before Parliament, one on of them being a pro-home-owner-defense bill. Were they ever shocked when the people they polled voted to put the 'Tony Martin' law first. ('Today' listeners are not your workingman down the pub. They're middle-class educated people, by and large.
    [ SOURCE ]

    But it didn't matter. How many Americans want to let boys use the girls' bathrooms in schools. That's not the way the Left works.

    This stuff is coming to America, step by step.

    Time to get out.
     
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  6. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good Lord! You mean the ones screaming 'OFF THE PIG' will get turned into long pig themselves? Given the state of personal hygiene of a lot of those people, I think I'd turn temporary vegetarian.
     
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  7. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've been thinking about your "better social safety nets" and lack of angry NRA gun fanatics.
    A large part of the American attitude to guns has to do with, let's admit it, Black violence. (As in this thread.)
    Must be our lack of social safety nets.
    Do you think if we had better social safety nets, we could raise our Black population to the happy condition yours seems to be in? Let's see: [italicized commentary my own.]
    [ SOURCE ]

    Hmmm... that "better social safety net" doesn't seem to be working so well, doncha think?. Better up those welfare payments.

    In the meantime, maybe we won't look to Australia for advice on this problem, as admirable as your country is in so many other respects.
     
  8. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Question: What's the difference between a doctor and God?
    Answer: God doesn't think He's a doctor.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
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  9. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm sure if you have a shot gun and one of you many enemies are climbing through your flimsy window, I'm sure it will be a deterrent when they see it.

    Have I fired a gun. Let me see, I fire the two shot guns I own. Does that count? What do I shoot? Game and clay pigeons.
     
  10. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'll bet you're pretty good with those weapons.
    But others might not be.
    Look here.
     
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  11. Imnotreallyhere

    Imnotreallyhere Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's why there are different degrees of murder. Premeditated, reckless, felony, etc.
     
  12. Imnotreallyhere

    Imnotreallyhere Well-Known Member Donor

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    Exactly. the kids made a choice. the choice got a kid killed. they need to be punished for this decision.
     
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  13. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    In my state you're allowed to shoot someone climbing in the window and I would. Being dead would deter them, i think.


    With your break barrel shotguns? Why I had no idea you was a expert mr earp!!
    And how many times have you shot at man size targets at close engagement distances in say a hallway or room where you're supposed to hit one target and not the other?
     
  14. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    If you are taking part in a felony and a death results from that then you get charged, the get-away car thingy. Yes it will probably be lowered in the plea bargains.
     
  15. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And Mueller's team.
     
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  16. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Back in the 80's or 90's New Orleans was having a rash of carjackings where people were getting injured or even killed as gang members tried to hijack the cars. They passed a law saying lethal force could be used against someone trying to carjack you. Of course the ACLU and the left were all up in arms about it. And it didn't take long a guy pulled a gun on a carjacker and shot and killed him. The ACLU and the left went into hyperoutrage, see we told you someone would get killed. Carjackings fell to ZERO, they literally stopped. Which meant no in danger, no one getting their care stolen and fewer people going to jail.
     
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  17. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why do you keep dodging?

    If a 75 year old is attacked by a gang of feral youth in Australia can he/she use something other than harsh words for self defense?

    You get hit by a tropical cyclone and you have no power, the cell towers are out, the police have fled or can't get to you and a gang is coming down your street having already robbed and raped some of your neighbors. How do you defend yourself and your family?
     
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  18. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    None of those had anything to do with recent shootings and would not have prevent them....Give me a break.
     
  19. arborville

    arborville Well-Known Member

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    And the punishment needs to fit the crime. IMO, it doesn't.

     
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  20. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why, you extend them a good social safety net. You deal with the root cause of their anger, which is racism. Obvious.
     
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  21. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    Racism isn't the root cause, but to deny it's a factor is ludicrous. There are plenty of black people alive today who remember "separate but equal". The kind of virulent homicidal racism this society was steeped in for much of our history takes a LONG TIME to wash out. And the effects are felt way down the line.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
  22. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Jews should be very violent then.
     
  23. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    They certainly don't take any **** from their neighbors, do they? Israel is an extremely aggressive country. The creation of Israel took a lot of violence. I think their attacks are disproportional sometimes, but I can't really blame them, after what they went through and considering who their neighbors are. But yes, Jews today are WAY more violent than pre-WW2 Jews. They're not going to go meekly to their deaths ever again. If there's (God forbid) another Holocaust, they're going to go down fighting to the last man and woman. And good for them.

    It's almost like there's this catastrophic event that changed their entire outlook on the world. I wonder if American blacks ever had a similar event in their history...
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
  24. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, I agree with you about Israel.

    American Blacks have a horrible dillema. The Jews could build a new country from nothing, and defend it, because they are at a high cultural level. Amrican Blacks are at a much lower one. In the ideal world, they would have 'reparations' consisting of their own country. (You probably know about Marcus Garvey, or the Republic of New Africa, or Liberia.)

    And I absolutely could understand why any Black, any Native American (of which I am about 1/64th myelf but it means nothng), any Japanese, any Hispanic .. might feel no loyalty at all to the flag and country that stole his ancestors, or stole his land or put his great-grandmother in an internmen camp. Why should they? That they do,when they do, shows remarkable forebearance and optimism about the future. (I don't know if you saw the Langston Hughes poem I posted.)

    But ... assuming that we all have to live together ... I don't think that the 'legacy of slavery' thing, however true, is helpful today for contributing to what has to happen in the Black community, in its lower levels especially, which is a huge leap in consciousness, getting out of the permanent Victim mentality.

    Personally, I would favor a Marshall Plan for Black America, starting with the schools (and preschools), based perhaps on the Harlem Children's Zone. But it would have to be a tough love approach -- my schools would be like Michaela Community School in London, run by Katherine Birbalsingh, with the thugs and wasters and "You actin' white" crabpot pullers-down swiftly excluded. I'd probably model my schools on Nation of Islam schools, minus the anti-Semitism, mixed in with the way Marva Collins ran her school in Chicago. (I normally supply relevant links to all these references but must go to bed now.)

    I would take on board William Julius Wilson's observations on what happens When Work Disappears in his book of that title, and Robert Cherry's Welfare Transformed, Family Policies That Work, and guarantee decently-paid jobs for anyone willing to work, paid for by increased taxation, and maybe by selling off some aircraft carriers. We've got the biggest aircraft carrier in the world right here, unsinkable, and don't need to be sending our lovely planes all over the world.

    However, I know this will never happen because there are no votes in it on either side.

    And anyway we're in the beginnings of a flat spin into the ground, you can hear the stall warning horn, and I want to try to persuard my side to bail out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
  25. Bush Lawyer

    Bush Lawyer Well-Known Member

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    With whatever we can get out hands on.
     

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