Why Hasn't Trump Put The Same Tariffs On Vietnam, Malaysia, and India

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by precision, Aug 17, 2019.

  1. precision

    precision Well-Known Member

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    If the purpose of Trumps tariffs are to bring back US jobs, then why doesn't he place the same tariffs on places to where US companies are shifting their production to avoid tariffs on goods made in China? Places like Vietnam, Malaysia, and India will benefit from this shift. Is it that he really doesn't have the stomach for the task? Or is it that the tariffs are really not about bringing back manufacturing jobs for US workers, but rather about containing China?
     
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  2. AKS

    AKS Banned

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    Trump is too simplistic and stupid to grok global trade. He started the trade war because, grunt grunt trade deficit bad. He literally likened the trade deficit with china stealing our money. He's a complete f***Ing idiot.
     
  3. precision

    precision Well-Known Member

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    I agree. That guy simply can't think. The thing is this, the only way to really get manufacturing jobs back here by tariffs is to tariff everything coming into the US that could be made in the US to such a rate that it would be cheaper to make it in the US. BUT you can't do that without destroying the US economy in the short run. Theoretically speaking you could make that work by compensating people that would lose jobs as a result, but of course it would be inflationary. Long story short, nobody that gets into office will do all of that, which is why Trump should have thought the matter through and not starting his stupid trade war with China in the first place.

    You are right, the guy simply can't think. As such, he has no business being president.
     
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  4. AKS

    AKS Banned

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    It's not possible to bring manufacturing jobs that will output goods that cost more than the same goods created in another country and benefit the economy at the same time. I mean, we can do it but it would necessarily mean a lower standard of living for Americans and less competitive American exports.
     
  5. precision

    precision Well-Known Member

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    I agree that it would necessarily make less competitive US exports, but I am not sure that you can demonstrate that it necessarily would mean a lower standard of living for Americans. IF the US could not make some of the things that it requires that might be true. Furthermore you might start to have difficulty when you start to have to import natural resources that you can't get domestically. But other than that, you might be able to pull it off without compromising the standard of living of Americans, at least to a level where they are now. That said, I would welcome it if you could prove me wrong.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
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  6. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    You fight one fight at a time even in trade wars multiple fronts isn't a good idea.
     
  7. AKS

    AKS Banned

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    The simplistic idea is that if you increase the cost of goods, the consumer has less money for the luxury items like cable, a cell phone per family member, restaurant visits, and on and on. Even if the change causes wages to rise you can be certain that inflation will kick in. You cannot escape the fact that the cheaper (formerly imported) goods have increased in cost relative to other goods and services. The American consumer must live worse without the cheaper imports than with. We quite literally derive our high standard of living from those that have a lower standard. As the Chinese transition to a service based economy and their citizens standards of living rise the cost of their exports would follow. We would observe a lower standard as equilibrium is reached (this would also tend bring manufacturing back to the US BTW). At this point we would accept the lower standard of living or we would need to find other emerging nations to trade with.

    Where did I go wrong?
     
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  8. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Other than the fact that you are missing the entire point of the fight not much.
     
  9. AKS

    AKS Banned

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    If the entire point is not to live as well as you can, what is it?
     
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  10. precision

    precision Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if you have actually gone wrong, I need to think about it more and I have to go. That said, the problem that I see with that position is that constraining manufacturing to the US as much as possible has the effect of distributing wealth to people on the lower end of the economic spectrum, which is better for the economy as a whole than having it disproportionately distributed to the top. From what I can tell, outsourcing US manufacturing to foreign countries has resulted in less good paying jobs for people who may not have the aptitude to engage in very sophisticated technical work. That and again, from what I can tell, people at the higher end tend to benefit more from this type of arrangement.

    Like I said, got to go now. Would love to hear your response to what I just put forward.
     
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  11. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    It is as much about geopolitics as anything else. You realize of course that even chuck schumer is on board for this fight. Pleasenote these are punitive not protective tariffs.
     
  12. AKS

    AKS Banned

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    That's a good question and one that I'm not prepared to answer, but could the effect we are seeing, the concentration of wealth, be due to forces other than free trade? It seems to me that automation would be a much larger threat to the distribution of wealth. That said, I think the proof is in the pudding. Do Americans, on balance, live better or worse?
     
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  13. AKS

    AKS Banned

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    You are certainly right about that! It's a fact that politics is always at loggerheads with efficiency. Anarchy anyone? Ok, I'm kidding... Mostly.
     
  14. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Isolationism is a failed policy.
    With the rest of the world using their competitive advantage, be it cheap labor, raw materials or technical talent, you soon get passed by the rest of the world and become the weak kid on the block.
    Best to be the country that manages it.
     
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  15. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would think that there are several reasons. First- it's smarter to pick your battles, and smarter not to do battle on all fronts at once. So you pick the big ones, where the relationship is costing us the most- and if you successfully resolve that, you will have probably convinced the lesser ones of your resolve, making negotiations with them easy- whereas if you started with the lesser ones, the big ones would not be much impressed- but they would be better prepared and tougher to deal with. Just a point of view.
     
  16. AKS

    AKS Banned

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    OR you could just make up some ad hoc bullshit.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
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  17. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Got your message. When people call common sense bullshit, you know how they think. You know it's all bullshit to them.
     
  18. tharock220

    tharock220 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe be because China is a greater economic threat to the US.

    Are those countries making American companies jump through a whole host of hoops in order to gain access to the market? Is their currency pegged to the dollar? Do they respect intellectual property?
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
  19. Idahojunebug77

    Idahojunebug77 Well-Known Member

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    You are overlooking the obvious, Trump is a free trader, his actions have turned folks that supported protectionist policies in the past (Perot supporters, organized labor, progressives, and Bernie Bros) now support free trade because , like you, they misunderstand Trumps end game. Changing peoples perception on trade was only one of Trump's goals.
     
  20. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    Why Hasn't Trump Put The Same Tariffs On Vietnam, Malaysia, and India. Because they haven't been screwing the US for decades.
     
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  21. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    It is because there isn't a damn thing he can do about it. Manufacturing jobs go overseas because of cheap labor. Trump has no idea what he is doing, and his harsh tariffs and trade wars have only made matters worse. Rather than improving trade deals with discussions, he abandons them. In the 31 months he has been President, the Great Negotiator has not signed one major trade deal. All he does is cancel them where the U.S, is concerned.

    Here's hoping our economy survives Trump. Without contributing a thing to our economy, Trump is doing his level best to destroying it.

    He has this nasty habit of taking decades old problems, world trade, Iran, North Korea, Middle East, global warming, etc. and making them worse. Then his supporters say other leaders haven't done any better. Which may be true in some cases, but they haven't made the problems worse. Because of his incompetence and inexperience, Trump has, several times.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
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  22. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Banned

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    China has built their economy from nothing to the world's second largest practicing isolationism with protective tariffs for two decades.

    One way trade works very well.
     
  23. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    China has practiced Mercantilism. They love trade. They just want most of it.
     
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  24. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Of course it is. Mainly having to do with the unavoidable fact that high taxes and excessive rules and regulation do not spread wealth they concentrate it and send it over seas.
     
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  25. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Further, none of them are threatening to sink our aircraft carriers, building a military specifically to challenge us, and attempting to take over international shipping lanes.

    They are in deep soup without the American Consumer, Trump has been helping them understand that, and they seem to be catching on.

    PetroChina Suspends Venezuelan Oil Imports In Huge Blow To Maduro

    Even if China continues to thwart US sanctions on Iran, in Venezuela Trump is gaining the upper hand.

    Bloomberg reported Friday that China National Petroleum Corp. (parent company of oil giant PetroChina Ltd) the country's biggest energy company is for the first time in over a decade backing away from Vezenuelan crude, canceling shipments in August:

    China National Petroleum Corp. has canceled plans to load about 5 million barrels worth of Venezuelan oil onto ships this month in the aftermath of the latest executive order by President Donald Trump, according to people with knowledge of the situation who asked not to be identified discussing proprietary information.​

    Beijing is seeking to reduce its exposure to the risk of Washington's sanctions, even as it grapples with the US on other fronts.

    This could prove a final massive economic blow to President Nicolas Maduro's future prospects amid food and electricity shortages and hyperinflation, given China has been state-owned PDVSA's top offload destination since the US brought unprecedented sanctions against it starting January 28th. The Trump administrated expanded the sanctions further on Aug. 5, aimed at severing Maduro's final major cash lifeline.

    Per Bloomberg's figures, China has imported 339,000 bpd of Venezuelan oil this year, with most transported by PetroChina, but lately Russia’s Rosneft has sought to step up after sanctions were imposed, and is expected to continue delivery to Chinese independent refineries.

    Trump's August 5th executive order was broadly interpreted as expanding the pressure campaign on countries continuing to do business with Caracas, including Russia, China, Cuba, Iran, Turkey and India. Washington has demanded that Maduro hand over power of his own accord to US-backed opposition leader Juan Guaido.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019...il-imports-amid-us-sanctions-huge-blow-maduro
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
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